Why capture bases in 1st turn?

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Feb 07, 2011 18:26

Subject: Why capture bases in 1st turn?

floe

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Joined: Dec 18, 2010,
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What's the point of having uncaptured non-naval bases in turn 1? Of course you are going to capture them right away, so why shouldn't they just be captured bases in the 1st place? The only possible reason I see for there being uncaptured bases is if the map happens to be really small, so instead of capturing the nearest base you instead try to surprise your opponent by moving your ground light unit closer to his territory.

Feb 08, 2011 06:03

Subject: Re:Why capture bases in 1st turn?

lion3

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Joined: Jun 30, 2010,
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This actually makes a very big difference for the amount of credits that red starts with. Blue does not get any base credits in round 1, but red does.
So if the bases were already captured when the game starts, red would get a lot more credits in turn 1.

This is already a big balance problem for some maps where most bases are already owned in the beginning (great wall, wild plains, etc).

One of the reasons that we have so few 2 player games at the higher levels is that the higher level players have figured this out and understand the current system greatly favors red over blue.

Game Developers - this is a big balance issue that you could solve in 10 seconds. Just have red get 50% base credits in turn 1.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 08, 2011 06:08

Feb 08, 2011 08:55

Subject: Re:Why capture bases in 1st turn?

floe

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Or just give blue base credits 1st turn. It's stupid to have to capture bases 1st turn.

Feb 10, 2011 08:24

Subject: Re:Why capture bases in 1st turn?

boourns

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A thought exercise for you lion3.

Pretend that everything the blue player does on his first turn is already done - he captures his bases but does NOT build any units - and in so doing this we pretend his 2nd turn is actually his first. In other words the red player is going first. On most maps (maybe all?) I think you will find that the advantage of "going 2nd" given to the blue player in this scenario is greater than the one given to the red player.

Feb 10, 2011 10:05

Subject: Re:Why capture bases in 1st turn?

lion3

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boourns wrote: A thought exercise for you lion3.

Pretend that everything the blue player does on his first turn is already done - he captures his bases but does NOT build any units - and in so doing this we pretend his 2nd turn is actually his first. In other words the red player is going first. On most maps (maybe all?) I think you will find that the advantage of "going 2nd" given to the blue player in this scenario is greater than the one given to the red player.

I have run this thought experiment many times. If Blue plays first, he starts without getting base money. If he does nothing, then red plays first with base money. So Red has the advantage.

We can take this a step further. After blue does nothing, red can also do nothing, thus forcing blue to play first after all. In that case, blue only got base money once while red got base money twice.

Blue does not have the option of "switching places" with red, as you seem to imply.

I cannot stress enough how important an issue this is. Blue has to pick his race first and also starts with less money. This means in 90% of cases, red wins. Thats why there are practically zero high level games to choose from. Why would anyone play as blue?

GAME Developers - these are the 2 biggest imbalances in the game and can be fixed in 1 hour of work. Have red earn only 50% base credits in turn 1. Also, when games are set up, have Blue choose his race, but dont show his choice until red also chooses a race!!!!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 10, 2011 10:08

Feb 14, 2011 18:08

Subject: Re:Why capture bases in 1st turn?

guolin

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Wow, this reminds me of the White-black imbalance in Chess. Except here, there's a concrete credit advantage. I like all the ideas of rebalancing it. Due to the messed up random-game-matchmaking, I always go first when I play random games, so I'm incredibly used to playing as blue. On close maps, it really sucks. (I tend to lose quite a bit on these ones, especially if it's me playing as Khral vs. Saps or Khral vs. Khral) On larger maps, the credit advantage is less noticeable, as the turn advantage does balance it out a bit.

Feb 17, 2011 13:59

Subject: Re:Why capture bases in 1st turn?

boourns

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Joined: Dec 03, 2010,
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I suppose i was referring to random games only, where you can not cherry pick good race to race matchups. Seems random would be the best true test of skill for this game.

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