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Next Balance Update Discussion February 2016
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Apercent

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Apercent

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  LkASr wrote:I favor more on +1 defense than +1 vs gh, that way they can hold a little longer against all


Problem is, they held too well against all as it stood before. And I think a small defense fits the swarmers style.
Kroeger

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Kroeger

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  Apercent wrote: Firstly, when has a swarmer ever done 3 vs a plasma?


In my article, I spell out that swarmers can often do 3 to a plasma if they are on a base. It is a common scenario for the Khral to use their mobility to force a titan player to build a plasma on a base at the last second. A good Khral player would then use swarmers and underlings to get that plasma to an inefficient level of health rendering 500 credits almost useless.

The bottom line is that the swarmers ground heavy will not be restored until it is shown that Titans continue to win in high-level matches against Kral. Right now zero evidence for this has been revealed.
Kroeger

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Kroeger

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Changes for this balance update :

Marauder - 1 GL (designed to prevent the marauder from stopping a cap attempt by itself)

Pinzer +1 air (Prevents multiple helicopters from killing a pinzer without taking any damage, but still allows the helicopter to counter the pinzer.)

Wyrm +1 air (Not intended for KvS since most agree this will not make much difference. Designed to encourage more usage of wyrms in KvK. This will indirectly encouraging usage of underling which will encourage cap attempts which has been almost nonexistent in high level KvK match ups.)

We are also applying the first wave of vision updates:

Marauder - 1
Tank - 1
Helicopter - 1
Destroyer - 2
Speeder - 1
Pinzer - 1
Garuda - 1
Leviathan - 3

These changes are final for this update and will be implemented in the next few days. I know many, like me, are sad that the swarmer was not able to be fixed in this update, but it will likely be our main priority for the next update. Since this update is smaller, we will not wait as long before discussion begins on the next balance update. Discussion for the next update will begin about a month from now on the 1st of April.
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  Kroeger wrote:Changes for this balance update :

Marauder - 1 GL (designed to prevent the marauder from stopping a cap attempt by itself)

Pinzer +1 air (Prevents multiple helicopters from killing a pinzer without taking any damage, but still allows the helicopter to counter the pinzer.)

Wyrm +1 air (Not intended for KvS since most agree this will not make much difference. Designed to encourage more usage of wyrms in KvK. This will indirectly encouraging usage of underling which will encourage cap attempts which has been almost nonexistent in high level KvK match ups.)

We are also applying the first wave of vision updates:

Marauder - 1
Tank - 1
Helicopter - 1
Destroyer - 2
Speeder - 1
Pinzer - 1
Garuda - 1
Leviathan - 3

These changes are final for this update and will be implemented in the next few days. I know many, like me, are sad that the swarmer was not able to be fixed in this update, but it will likely be our main priority for the next update. Since this update is smaller, we will not wait as long before discussion begins on the next balance update. Discussion for the next update will begin about a month from now on the 1st of April.


Personally, I would rather no change to swarmer than adding the GH back... But I was really hoping for that GL. Ah well. I'll try to watch some tape for the April fools discussion
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Apercent

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Apercent

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Well, I guess swarmer g.h can wait if that's what you want. But I think the swarmer should get 8 g.l at least.


As for "common scenario". I just said that you have a 4.2% chance of that happening. Do you call that common?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Feb 28, 2016 16:44

Kroeger

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Kroeger

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  Apercent wrote: As for "common scenario". I just said that you have a 4.2% chance of that happening. Do you call that common?


You are miscalculating somewhere or misunderstanding me. Old Swarmer (+1 Gh) + 3 Gangup bonus had a 22% chance of doing 3 damage to a plasma on a base and it was a very common scenario.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 29, 2016 16:00

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Apercent

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Apercent

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  Kroeger wrote:
  Apercent wrote: As for "common scenario". I just said that you have a 4.2% chance of that happening. Do you call that common?


You are miscalculating somewhere or misunderstanding me. Old Swarmer (+1 Gh) + 3 Gangup bonus had a 22% chance of doing 3 damage to a plasma on a base and it was a very common scenario.


Remember though, it would be more like 2 if you were using it from a range. With the new defense, it isn't a good idea to melee with a swarmer. Although I agree that it could wait, I'd like to see a 5 g.h eventually.
EVR1022

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EVR1022

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@apercent - you can +3 gang-up on a ranged attack. Read through the forum thread about gang up bonus - there are 6 spots for +3, and two of them are at a range of 2.
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Apercent

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Apercent

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I admit I was wrong on that.
atest

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atest

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Changes for this balance update :

Marauder - 1 GL (designed to prevent the marauder from stopping a cap attempt by itself)

Pinzer +1 air (Prevents multiple helicopters from killing a pinzer without taking any damage, but still allows the helicopter to counter the pinzer.)

Wyrm +1 air (Not intended for KvS since most agree this will not make much difference. Designed to encourage more usage of wyrms in KvK. This will indirectly encouraging usage of underling which will encourage cap attempts which has been almost nonexistent in high level KvK match ups.)

We are also applying the first wave of vision updates:

Marauder - 1
Tank - 1
Helicopter - 1
Destroyer - 2
Speeder - 1
Pinzer - 1
Garuda - 1
Leviathan - 3

These changes are final for this update and will be implemented in the next few days. I know many, like me, are sad that the swarmer was not able to be fixed in this update, but it will likely be our main priority for the next update. Since this update is smaller, we will not wait as long before discussion begins on the next balance update. Discussion for the next update will begin about a month from now on the 1st of April.


I like these changes, I would prefere for the leviathan to only loose 2 vision so it can see all it can attack
I would also like for the wyrm to get +1 speed instead of +1 air as it would make it able to get away from swarmers and closer to helicopters, because deseart tiles are tough on the wyrm.

Lastly
I would likewise prefer the swarmer to get +2 GL instead of +1 GH, I feel that the marauder is not the issue in SvK but heli/marine, and allowing the swarmer to kill marines more easily might help this match up much more.

I also think eclipses should get -1 (or 2) air and -50 cost, they are used vs kha but never vs sap as sap dont use helicopters vs titan, making them cheap infantary killers might make them more useful in both games, while he -air would encourage sap to get helicopters

I don't think that the marauder should get -1 GL as this is a large nerf to sapians, rather see eclipse and swarmer boostet

I also like the idea that only healers can detect, though I think that artillery should be able to detect as well.

Finally as a crazy idea, I think that hidden underlings should be able to "jump" getting 0 + 4 air attack, this could make them okish vs helicopters (0-1 damage w/o gang up and tarain bonus), but more importantly it would make them dangerous to swarmers changing the KvK metagame
fobos_rus

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fobos_rus

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Why speeder view change? Speeder mobility (and attack) 5 hex, but he can't attack, because he don't vision enemy.
drumstep

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drumstep

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  atest wrote:sap dont use helicopters vs titan

Helicopter is actually used quite a bit against titan. With the +2 gangup they get by attacking from the same spot they are great at destroying plasmas. As for the underling, the problem is with gangup and terrain, they could end up trading evenly with a helicopter. Helicopters shouldn't have to worry about underlings like they do eclipses.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Mar 10, 2016 05:05

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LkASr

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LkASr

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I generally use helis as meatshields to my tanks if I'm playing against Titans, since they receive less damage than tanks so tanks can deal more damage. As Hulk would say "More smashing, less being pretty"

Schwartzenegger would disagree tho

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 10, 2016 06:22


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