How to fix the game balance

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May 21, 2011 05:06

Subject: How to fix the game balance

lion1

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Joined: May 17, 2011,
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This topic has been talked about at length, but I feel some of the suggestions out there are too extreme and might actually fix one imbalance but cause other imbalances.

What we need are some simple, changes that address the main game imbalances yet have few or no side effects.

So here goes:

1) Blue player does not get base credits in turn 1. There is a small advantage to going first, but the penalty is much too extreme. This also creates a big dis-incentive to set up games since the person setting up the game gets penalized. On many maps (eg: great wall), this is literally the deciding factor between victory and defeat. Fix: on team maps blue should not get penalized at all. On 1 vs 1 maps, blue should get 50% base credits in turn 1.

2) Khrals always beat Titans. No top player will ever play Titans vs Khrals - we know that Khrals simply dominate Titans. I suggest 2 possible fixes: a) Plasma Tanks do 2 damage to buried underlings when crushing them. b) UV blasts hurt buried underlings. "a" may not be enough. "b" may be too much. Either way, this will have no side effects and will not alter the balance of any other matchups.

3) Saps almost always beat Khrals. The combination of Heli + Marine spam is just too much for Khrals. I suggest that we choose 2 out of the following 3 fixes a) Underlings get an air attack of 1 (like Pinzers) b) Heli ground light attack be reduced to 11 c) Garuda air attack be increased to 10.

4) Khral vs Khral battles end up being nothing more than swarmer-fests. Same solution as in 3: a) Underlings get an air attack of 1 (like Pinzers) B) Garuda air attack be increased to 10.

After we fix these, the game will be 90% balanced. To make it 100% balanced, we will have to adjust the base payouts on different maps based on how much they favor certain races.

May 21, 2011 10:19

Subject: Re:How to fix the game balance

lantry

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Location: PA, USA
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I agree with most of these points, though the only one I've really experienced is 4. I don't think an air attack of one would be good enough for the underlings, as they really only get one attack in before they are weakened too much to do anything. I think it would have to be at least 2, because then you could actually have a decent air attack when you have a good terrain differential or when you unbury.

May 22, 2011 00:55

Subject: Re:How to fix the game balance

youownme

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Joined: Feb 05, 2011,
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I agree that khral dominate titans on almost every map, and I like your ideas for balancing that. Yes, khral vs khral is basically a swarmer fest, but i dont think that much can be done about that. As for khral vs sap, I do not think that sap dominates khral as much as you say. In my experience (probably not much compared to yours) if you play khrals smartly then you can pull off a win. Some maps are much too easy for sap to win though, such as deadmonk or wildplains. I find that in bigger maps, khral tend to gain an advantage. I also think that the sapien battery is a little underpowered. Again, this is just my opinion and would love feedback.

-_-

May 22, 2011 02:21

Subject: Re:How to fix the game balance

gracier

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Joined: Sep 27, 2010,
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Hi Lion,

I like your ideas, and they would certainly help out to make some map matchups more balanced.

The only concerns I have is around the Garuda air attack increased to 10, and the uv damage to underlings.

I would prefer to see the Garudas defense stats raised by 1 rather than an increase in their attack ability, and the Titan Assimilators defence/protection increased by 2 across the piece.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 22, 2011 02:21

May 24, 2011 04:18

Subject: Re:How to fix the game balance

Rainbow

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Joined: Dec 06, 2010,
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Very good suggestions! It will better balance gameplay. Here some comments to this issue:

1) i generally agree with all what Lion said. One thing is that in team games, Blue should have start money + 50% income in the first round, not + 100% income - it will be to big advantage for team 1 (don't forget about race choosing advantage for team1 - they also can do appropriate race choose before game starts).
2) I agree that garudas should be improved and think one more defence will be better than one more attack (Its mess when swarmers with some gang up deal 3 damage to Garuda. Now garuda is rather lame unit, even for his price)
3) I think that 1 air attack is enough for lings. Also they used as buried traps and can get +6 bonus (+3 resurface and +3 - good gang up). Its VERY big power.
4) I always thought that immortal buried lings isn't good. I suppose that lings shouldn't can heal under ground heavy (ridiculous that heavy ground damages lings and allows them heal at the same time!). And i think all "tanks" (Tank, P-tank, Pinzer) should deal 2 damage to buried.
5) I think devs shouldn't do +2 defence to assimilator. Its too big change in balance and by this way, all other supporters (engineer, infector) should be upgraded too. I don't see big need for it.

May 24, 2011 06:50

Subject: How to fix the game balance

lte1000

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Joined: May 24, 2011,
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I agree with most of this. My suggestions to fix the game balance would be as follows:

Khraleans
- Increase garuda aerial attack to 10. Doesn't help against Titans but gives it more of a chance against helis. Also improves KvK.
- Increase infector attacks range to 2 (infect marine and disease). At the moment the infector has the weakest abilities and yet costs the most. If you move next to human marine to infect it at the moment you will lose the infector which at cost 300 makes the ability almost useless. Also for disease, the turn a unit repairs next to an engineer to get rid of disease it shouldn't also repair damage as well.
- Make buried underlings visible to all players. with the usual visibility rules. They are powerful against Titans, but if Titans can see them then they can stop them surfacing. Also they don't just have to leave thousands of mechas around their walkers in case they missed one. Khralean player needs to be clever with swarmers, wyrms etc. to kill units above underlings to allow them to surface.

Sapiens
- I never see batteries used. I would change the range to 2-4, instead of 3-4, so they have similar scope to the other races long range units. Also I would add the ability to move and fire as long as it moved only one hex. Then all 3 long range units can effectively have a range of 5 when movement is included.

Titans
- A problem for Titans is the terrain penalties for their vehicles. On maps like great wall the only way for them to get across to the other side is to teleport, which only the eclipse can do. I would suggest adding teleport ability for the speeder as well. Doesn't really make the unit better, just gives the Titans more of a chance on maps with a lot of terrain. Also I think in general the terrain penalties should be reduced by one for vehicles (all races, not just Titans). So forest is -2 defence, swamp -1 attack, -1 defence. Still a problem for titans but they don't lose quite so much against fliers. It would make maps like jungle a bit more interesting as well.

I love the game, just trying to come up with ideas to make it even better.

May 24, 2011 21:45

Subject: Re:How to fix the game balance

talone

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Joined: Aug 02, 2010,
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I am strongly against to give Ling arial attack.
1 point attack - is too much. Because from under surface it will get about 3-4 points, with gang up - about 7!!! In this case sap don't have any little chance.
And modulate garuda is bad idea too. Very bad.

I think we should make swarmer with higher light attack.

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May 24, 2011 22:39

Subject: Re:How to fix the game balance

talone

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So, my suggestions are the following:

1. Swarmer light attack make 8. It will help khral to kill marines.
2. Infector mobility make 9. It will strongly help with plauge.
3. Lings mobility UNDER surface make 6 . It helps titan against khral.
4. Assimilator and Engineer defence make 1. It helps titan against khral very much (lings can't kill assimilator with one strike from under the surface)and improve balance titan vs sap.

So balance will be ideal.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at May 25, 2011 03:07

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May 25, 2011 05:41

Subject: How to fix the game balance

lte1000

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Joined: May 24, 2011,
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Agreed giving the underlings aerial attack doesn't make sense. But I am not convinced by your suggestions:
1) Won't this help Khral even more against Titans? I don't think this improves game balance. Also given KvK just seems to be about swarmers anyway, I don't think improving them any more makes sense.
2) This doesn't solve the problem that if the infector goes to the front to use either of its abilities its easily killed off by helis, marauders etc. At a cost of 300 putting it at risk to deliver plague or infect a marine is too expensive, so the abilities are useless. I prefer my idea of giving it a range of 2 - engineer has range 3 and assimilator have range 5 for lower cost. Another advantage of this is that it only helps against saps - it doesn't unbalance KvT any more.
3. This just slows things down a bit for the K player, I don't think it helps KvT balance that much - and helps Saps against K as well.
4. Improve Assimilator and Engineer even more? When they are already better than infector at 2/3 cost? lings can't kill assimilators if they are in favourable terrain, if Titan leaves them exposed he only has himself to blame.

My two suggestions to help Titans v Khraleans without weakening Khraleans v Sapiens were:
- reduce terrain penalties for vehicles by 1
- make buried underlings visible (alternatively if people don't like that maybe give one of the Titan units the ability to see buried underlings).

May 25, 2011 19:43

Subject: Re:How to fix the game balance

MasonC

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Joined: Apr 06, 2010,
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I am low rated but I was wondering, what if UV didn't affect sapiens or only affected ground light?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 25, 2011 19:44

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