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dan1 tourney 5
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simsverd

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simsverd

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  jb__ wrote: Our first round is well underway. I have initial 3 remarks on the new system:

1) FAIRNESS - the current system is not fair.

2) COMMITMENT - we have had one player leaving (surrendering all games after a few moves). That spoils the whole round for all and wastes the invested time.

3) 5 TURNS RULE - I personally think the the 5 turn base holding rule is harmful to the game and should be abandoned as it makes the game strategies poorer.


1. Disagree (or at least not agree to all)...
There is no possible way to achieve "absolute fairness".. at least when there also is need for a practial and quick way to get the tourney started.. There is ofc room for improvements on how games are assigned. Feel free to share your ideas
Most players at 2500+ are well skilled in all races, and therefore i cant see how a mirror match can be so unfair. Your claim that "The starting race is most often determining what game it is really. " is as far as i see it not backed up by substantial explenations on how this is unfair.
To me i would find it more annoying than unfair that my race choices was somewhat limited....

2. Agree

3. Agree

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WolfCat

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WolfCat

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I Agree that the 5 turns rule should be dropped
jb__

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jb__

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  youownme wrote:

I agree with most of this. Although I had already won panda before he left.



Others may have almost won (or maybe some almost lost?) - the point is that the result is biased unless everyone would have won anyway and that is hard to know 100%.

  youownme wrote:

I'm not sure if it is unfair either, just easier to display my strengths while exploiting anothers weaknesses. Shouldn't be a problem if you are well rounded with all of the races, but most people aren't.



The definition of fairness is equal chance. This is not equal chance - thus unfair.
It prevents one person from choosing the first race in any of 8 games while somebody else has potentially done it for all 8 games.
Would that always be a problem against an inferior player and on any map? Not really. But that is not the point!
You want all other circumstances to be equal so the result can only be attributed to players so if you realize that a tournament rules
are incomplete and that may lead to lack of fairness you just fix it instead of arguing that in same cases it would not matter.

It it probable that you will win our current pair of games - cool move taking that base. I hereby challenge you to win a pair on the same map as well when I will chose the first race - what about that as a proof?


jb__

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jb__

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  simsverd wrote:

1. Disagree (or at least not agree to all)...
There is no possible way to achieve "absolute fairness".. at least when there also is need for a practial and quick way to get the tourney started.. There is ofc room for improvements on how games are assigned. Feel free to share your ideas



While it is true that there is no possible PRACTICAL way to achieve ABSOLUTE fairness, there is a simple way to achieve a fair fairness here and I have already shared it - if the round is of 5 players as it is now you just sent exactly 2 invites to initial matches instead of up to 4. Simple and fair (or at least fairer). What problems would that create?


  simsverd wrote:

Most players at 2500+ are well skilled in all races, and therefore i cant see how a mirror match can be so unfair. Your claim that "The starting race is most often determining what game it is really. " is as far as i see it not backed up by substantial explenations on how this is unfair.
To me i would find it more annoying than unfair that my race choices was somewhat limited....



The thing is that while we may be skilled in all races there is a strategic advantage to be able to impose a race pair on a given map - especially on an unknown map as we deal with them here as we may in that setup be able to foresee the outcome better.

ZULLOSUTRA

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ZULLOSUTRA

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just finished with supercc. He beat me. He is a little slow, so he is probably active with the others.
dan1

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dan1

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hi all i have free time today so will read all the above comments and give feedback. for now i have just updated sheet let me know if there are any mistakes or more to add.

i am nearly finished with jarek. well in the sense i am capping in one game and i dont think he can stop it. and in other game it is still open inless he can cap next round which i dont think will be possible

but i will wait to see that i am not missing anything.
cytivrat

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cytivrat

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cytivrat (blue sap) won Jarek (red titan) in 16 rounds.

And for 99% will win the second one (and for 100% our total match): currently it is round 18, I'm capturing his base and have 3000 advantage. Personally I was surprised that he gave up in the first game (maybe he just mixed up those games?), because despite my nice counter attack I had just 400 advantage, didn't even try to capture his base and expected him to cause heavy damage to my troops with hardly predictable outcome
dan1

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dan1

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okay a few updates.

the 5 turn rule will be dropped for next tourney. it will however be used in the final rounds of this tournament.

tie break will first go to most most individual games won. this should at least bring it down to just 2 players in the event of there still being a tie the 2 people will play a rematch. but i feel this is an unlikely event to happen.

regarding invites to games. jb is correct that a more fair way to do it would be to invite the 2 people below you. if you are at the bottom of the group you will of course come to the top of the table for your invites. but this being said although this will make the invites more fair and make some people more happy it was by no means unfair as we are mirrored. the advantage is so marginal and i mean so so marginal. but it is easy enough to introduce this rule to save any future talks on the matter. we will use this rule in final grouping of this tournament.

and sorry to ll those in pandas group i dont have a full understanding what is going on with him there if someone can fill me in. has he resigned? and if so do we have a reason? if this is so unfortunately it is to late to replace him at this stage so he will just be marked as all defeats.

please comment on the above if you have any further questions or remarks

many thanks to all
jb__

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jb__

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  dan1 wrote: okay a few updates.
the 5 turn rule will be dropped for next tourney. it will however be used in the final rounds of this tournament.


Excellent news.


  dan1 wrote:
tie break will first go to most most individual games won. this should at least bring it down to just 2 players in the event of there still being a tie the 2 people will play a rematch. but i feel this is an unlikely event to happen.


This is probably the best way to deal with it - game won is a game won and the direct match is the best tiebreaker.
What do you exactly mean by a rematch - the same map & the same races & the same players?


  dan1 wrote:
regarding invites to games. jb is correct that a more fair way to do it would be to invite the 2 people below you. if you are at the bottom of the group you will of course come to the top of the table for your invites. but this being said although this will make the invites more fair and make some people more happy it was by no means unfair as we are mirrored. the advantage is so marginal and i mean so so marginal. but it is easy enough to introduce this rule to save any future talks on the matter. we will use this rule in final grouping of this tournament.


Yes it is more fair already (and as simple as it gets - requires no lookup whatsoever) if you just invite exactly 2 players who have not invited you yet and let 2 others invite you.
The funny thing is that the same person - one of those who argued here the fairness of setting 8 starting races vs 0 corrected me when I tried to invite him to a game with different starting race . I gave up and ended 0 to 8.

  dan1 wrote:
and sorry to ll those in pandas group i dont have a full understanding what is going on with him there if someone can fill me in. has he resigned? and if so do we have a reason? if this is so unfortunately it is to late to replace him at this stage so he will just be marked as all defeats.


He has just quit stating that he could not play it without any further elaboration. It would be great to replace him if there is someone readily available - we would give his games a time priority.


  dan1 wrote:
please comment on the above if you have any further questions or remarks

many thanks to all


Comments done
Many thanks to you above all!
cytivrat

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cytivrat

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cytivrat (red titan) won Jarek (blue sap) in 18 rounds.
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talone

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talone

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I'm sorry that I write in this topic, but it's an ad for you (for the strongest)

Attention!


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Every strong fighter can fight in the Arena and get a prize for winning the 10-20 dollars!

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2. take screenshots of each round of combat and put them on http://www.runiwar.ru during combat.

You can communicate in English.

I recall that one fight in the arena consists of two symmetric games. Map and race are determined directly before the fight.

There is a wish?

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 19, 2013 02:59


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ggleb

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ggleb

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laughing sir won ggleb in both games. cogratulations! thanks for games.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 20, 2013 12:24

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frenchie

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frenchie

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Looks like laughing sir has not posted his result. He beat frenchie both games, round 12 and round 14.
laughing sir

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laughing sir

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Thank you all for the games.

laughing sir blue khral wins ggleb's red sapien in 15
laughing sir red sapien wins ggleb's blue khral in 12

laughing sir blue sapien wins frenchie's red titan in 12
laughing sir red titan wins frenchie's blue sapien in 14

laughing sir blue sapien wins flyinghigh's red titan in 6
laughing sir red titan wins flyinghigh's blue sapien in 7

still fighting with starryblink
dan1

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dan1

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more updates on the sheet. my group E has been won by dan1 i still play jarek in one game but it is past the round amount of the other gae which is over.

laughing sir makes a strong hold on group B with only starryblink being able to stop him. \

Group C we still cant tell who will win from the results shown so anymore would be helpfull.

Group A mainly hangs on vogons results so we will shall await to hear from him

and group D supercc holds the key to the winner there. the finals are getting close. i will start to look for a map soon for the final.


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