Gangup bonus

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Nov 20, 2011 01:02

Subject: Gangup bonus

simsverd

Messages: 921,
Joined: Dec 02, 2010,
Location: Bergen, Norway
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Thought i should share a drawing i made.
I got the info earlier from a russian uniwar forum that no longer exist.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Apr 19, 2012 11:14

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Nov 20, 2011 13:27

Subject: Re:Gangup bonus

rwieczor84

Messages: 184,
Joined: Dec 24, 2010,
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why +3 bonus from 90 degrees attack?? it's stupid...

Nov 21, 2011 10:24

Subject: Re:Gangup bonus

earth

Messages: 51,
Joined: Aug 11, 2011,
Location: UK
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Thank you Sim, nice diagram.

Just one observation.
I have noticed if you attack a unit from the same angle e.g. with multiple marauders or helicopters, the damage seems to be greater than +1, more like +2.

Earth

Nov 25, 2011 18:01

Subject: Re:Gangup bonus

Cpt Hawaiian

Messages: 199,
Joined: Sep 12, 2010,
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Hmm, are you sure about the ranged attack gangup bonus? I was under the impression that any ranged attack only gives plus 1.

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Nov 25, 2011 19:38

Subject: Re:Gangup bonus

waxoid

Messages: 442,
Joined: Aug 07, 2010,
Location: Seattle, WA
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From prior thread: yes that's what I thought as well Cpt, but I tested this and it looks correct, at least the spots I tried (including the +3 spots and a couple of +2 spots). Crazy, right?

For those curious: a good way is to set up tests that detect the 'cliff' between p = 1.0 (atk-def >= 10) and p = .95 (atk-def = 9) caused by round down in the formula. At p = 1.0, a unit delivers it's full hit points in damage, every time, guaranteed. At p = .95, it's highly unlikely that a unit deliver full damage (on the order of 1% or 2% depending on # of rolls... say for a 10 hit point unit none of the 60 rolls can land in the 5% miss zone without causing at least one full hit point to miss... and consistently missing that 5% zone for so many rolls turns out to be unlikely.) So a few quick tests can be pretty conclusive.

Is this info from the devs sim? Thanks again for sharing. I see a possible place for the +3 side spots for swarmer vs. destroyer coming up in one of my games...

Nov 26, 2011 03:47

Subject: Re:Gangup bonus

simsverd

Messages: 921,
Joined: Dec 02, 2010,
Location: Bergen, Norway
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i found it on uniwar.ru
but the post there has been removed. I re-created it based on sonme tests i did.

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Nov 28, 2011 08:08

Subject: Re:Gangup bonus

Cpt Hawaiian

Messages: 199,
Joined: Sep 12, 2010,
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Wow, yes i did some tests too! This is fascinating and will definitely affect the way I play. Thanks for posting this! (And now I forgive you for getting to one of my walkers on Traisle. hahaha)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 28, 2011 08:13

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Nov 28, 2011 13:18

Subject: Re:Gangup bonus

waxoid

Messages: 442,
Joined: Aug 07, 2010,
Location: Seattle, WA
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So now my question is whether there are >+1 gangup locations from one ranged attack to another, not just off of a proximity attack as shown in this diagram. Either of you tested that?

Nov 29, 2011 07:59

Subject: Re:Gangup bonus

Cpt Hawaiian

Messages: 199,
Joined: Sep 12, 2010,
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Sims told me in a game that any ranged after ranged is only +1 regardless of the location. I haven't tested that but in all my games the results come out about with that expectation, so I think that's right. It is interesting that a ranged unit in proximity doesn't count as ranged though and counts as melee or direct.

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Dec 08, 2011 10:32

Subject: Re:Gangup bonus

waxoid

Messages: 442,
Joined: Aug 07, 2010,
Location: Seattle, WA
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Random gangup factoid of the day: UV doesn't disrupt it. Normally if you attack a unit, attack another unit, return to the first gangup is gone (is only relative to immediate preceding hit), but UV doesn't count as an attack. So, hypothetically now, you can hit marauder on forest with eclipse, see if you got 4 or 5 before deciding if you need the UV, add the UV, then finish with the speeder and still have gangup.

At least in tests.

In game yesterday it didn't work so well, but I'm assuming that was just a weak speeder roll...

Dec 14, 2011 20:31

Subject: Re:Gangup bonus

Cpt Hawaiian

Messages: 199,
Joined: Sep 12, 2010,
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Yeah, I tested it too, and you're right! It doesn't seem to affect gangup! That will totally change how I play in certain situations. Great find, thanks for posting it. So yeah, your speeder roll landed on the weak side lol.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 14, 2011 20:32

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Dec 21, 2011 09:14

Subject: Re:Gangup bonus

waxoid

Messages: 442,
Joined: Aug 07, 2010,
Location: Seattle, WA
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The ranged +3 gangup really is sick. It has already been somewhat game-turning in at least one match: swarmer hitting destroyer for 3 damage definitely doesn't suck. Nor does swarmer hitting eclipse for 4 or swarmer hitting plasma on base for 2...

Dec 22, 2011 14:22

Subject: Re:Gangup bonus

Cpt Hawaiian

Messages: 199,
Joined: Sep 12, 2010,
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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I have to agree wholeheartedly to that. I hope all the Khral players out there don't internalize this when I'm playing as Titans lol! Ugh!

There are some other interesting implications:

-Walkers firing from 4 range on follow-up can often get +2 instead of only +1 from 5 range
-Any range unit has a +3 gang up sweet spot if attacking from 2 spaces directly behind their first unit that attacks (total range of 3)
-Eclipses can also rarely get that beautiful +3 follow up with positioning (most likely still a super nice +2 from elsewhere, but the possibility is still there)

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Jul 05, 2012 17:03

Subject: Re:Gangup bonus

waxoid

Messages: 442,
Joined: Aug 07, 2010,
Location: Seattle, WA
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btw, earth mentioned earlier in this thread that units attacking from the same space (talking non-ranged here, e.g. speeders or helis attacking in series, marauder landing and attacking twice from the same spot) seem to do better than +1, more like +2. After own mentioned to me I did test this last month and confirmed that is +2. Good to know for your mental calculations.

Jul 06, 2012 10:29

Subject: Re:Gangup bonus

droidfreak36

Messages: 183,
Joined: Jan 23, 2012,
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Why haven't I seen this thread earlier? As a Khral player I feel this could increase my rating by a few hundred points. =)

This info should be posted in the instructions!

DroidFreak, the roboticist who plays as Khrals.

(Or Titans now that I realize how legit they are)

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