droidfreak36
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droidfreak36
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One major thing I've noticed about UniWar is that it pretty much doesn't matter which unit initiates an attack, because the counterattack will be just as powerful as an attack from the defending unit against the attacking unit would be. This means that initiating attacks that can be countered is not advantageous unless you can attack a unit that is weak against the attacking unit or get bonuses (terrain, pop-up, gangup). On many maps you can do more damage than the enemy just by healing your units repeatedly and letting the enemy attack them.
Because of the OP counterattacks, it becomes a huge advantage to have units that can attack without being countered. Ranged units, including Eclipse and Swarmer, benefit from this, as do air units in many situations. I'm not saying that the UniWar team should change this, but players should be aware of this and know how to exploit it. I think the Khraleans are the best at exploiting it because they have two ranged non-sea units that move after attack (arguably the best unit type) and they have two air units. The Titans have 1-0 of these and the Sapiens have 0-1, so the Khralies win by a long shot with 2-2 (Note that the Swarmer is both an air unit and a ranged move-after-attack unit, so it is counted twice).
By the way, if anyone thinks I am a noob just because I haven't played internet UniWar yet should think again. I have played around quite a bit with all three races in campaign and solo matches and I have a lot of experience with other turn-based strategy games. The only reason I'm not playing online is that my proxy currently interferes with UniWar (soon to be fixed).
Update: My proxy is fixed. Feel free to challenge me.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jan 25, 2012 04:16
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DroidFreak, the roboticist who plays as Khrals.
(Or Titans now that I realize how legit they are) |
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waxoid
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waxoid
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Well, you're still a noob because you haven't played real multiplayer uniwar.
Good analysis for just having played solo though. Attacker has plenty of advantage because multiple attacks on units are so effective: (a) gang-up bonus, and (b) it is generally always advantageous when healthy units attack weak units, because the weak units counter-attack poorly (favorable net exchange of damage. In a sense the game is about setting up as much favorable damage exchanges as possible.) The only problem with attacking is that it generally leaves your units in range of counter-attack, in which case your opponent gets to enjoy all these benefits of attacking.
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nfong
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nfong
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That's mainly why eclipses and swarmers are not so great against ground heavy units. And wyrms have attack after move because they only have 3 range, while the other artillery units have up to 4/5 range.
You'll also notice that the ranged units have weak defense, so I don't think that these ranged units are OP at all.
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When life gives you lemons...
"TAKE YOUR DAMN LEMONS BACK, LIFE. I DON'T WANT YOUR STINKIN' LEMONS." |
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droidfreak36
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droidfreak36
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waxoid:
It's true that attacking does allow you to set up a more favorable attack, but what I'm saying is that new players shouldn't expect attacks to be more favorable just because you initiate them. In real life a battle between two soldiers is often won by the attacker, but in UniWar a fight between two marines (or any mirrored units) usually leaves them at equal health. Units that have longer range or that most units have a weak attack against (air units) are the best at setting up favorable attacks, which is why I like them.
nfong:
It's also true that the unit types mentioned are often weaker at offense and/or defense, but I believe the weaknesses are balanced out by their strengths. Swarmer has a weak attack against heavy units, but it is awesome against lighter units (even light ground heavy units like Marauder) and takes little to no damage if used properly. Likewise Eclipse is weak against heavy units but is strong against light and air units. If you consider that Wyrm can attack after move and can move two hexes on normal terrain, the range disadvantage becomes meaningless, because Wyrm can move forward and attack a unit that was 5 hexes away from where it started. The big advantage of Wyrms is that they aren't defenseless while they are getting into position, unlike other artillery units which must waste a shot just to move off your base and let you build another unit. Wyrms also have the advantage of firing at close range and having high attacks against all unit types. Maybe these units aren't overly powerful, but if used correctly they can be some of the most powerful units in the game.
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DroidFreak, the roboticist who plays as Khrals.
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nfong
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nfong
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True, swarmers do have good damage against light units, but that's why you don't mass units like mechas and assimilators. And same deal with the eclipse; don't bother using air units against titans.
However your point about the wyrm is very valid; I've had trouble with ling-wyrm rushes as titans on some maps.
But I still believe that swarmers and eclipses are perfectly fine atm.
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When life gives you lemons...
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waxoid
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waxoid
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Well, khral-khral is somewhat broken precisely because swarmers are cheap and do range damage, and (a) khral doesn't have a strong anti-air unit like the eclipse and (b) their g. light can't attack aerial, so the swarmers don't have to worry about their weak defense because a khral opponent can't generate harmful units fast enough to offset the accumulating range attacks (unless the opponent is also spamming swarmers, obviously.) Sapiens survive the Swarm (usually ) because of helis and marines. You're definitely right to want to take advantage of ranged units where you can, droidfreak, but you'll find the unit balance much more complicated against capable players online than it is against the CPU, which is basically hopeless against ranged units.
And you're also right that it's important for new players to learn that in a single combat exchange, which unit is attacking and which is defending is not considered in the damage formula i.e. makes no difference. That's a common confusion. It is also common for new players to not understand just how important gang-up is (as part of a series of combat exchanges), since it seems like a small game effect to start.
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lantry
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lantry
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I don't think swarmers are as broken as most people think. I have had good results by countering them with mostly garudas and a handful of swarmers.
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nfong
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nfong
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lantry wrote: I don't think swarmers are as broken as most people think. I have had good results by countering them with mostly garudas and a handful of swarmers.
Garudas work decently to a certain point; after the other player has a critical mass of swarmers it's pretty hard to counter em. On close position maps though, I would say garudas are actually really effective against swarmers, especially if the bases are within garuda attacking distance of one another.
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waxoid
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waxoid
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It presumably depends on map, and credits/turn (which affects how fast the 'critical mass' can be achieved.) Which is why I said somewhat broken. Though the whole area is a relatively obscure branch of uniwarology I can't say I've earned any degrees in.
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