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Next Balance Update Discussion February 2016
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simsverd

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simsverd

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I would restore the GH of swarmer to better fight marauder,
but i would also give it +1 GL before restoring the defence... i like the weak swarmer and think it should remain so to prevent the swamer only K vs K.
I also support giving pinzer an additional air attack to be able to fight the helis and make up for the poor defence of swarmers and no air of lings.
The wyrm can stay as it is now. I would be ok with +1 air also, but i dont think it will matter much.

My suggestions:
swarmer +1 GH
swarmer +1 GL
pinzer +1 air


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unikz

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unikz

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Thank you Kyle for your hardwork. We spoke in other social media already but just put everything I suggested( inspired by chn zero) in writing again for recording purpose.

I agreed mostly with Legia and Sim

1. Wyrm +1 air attack
2. Swarmer +1 GH (restore) to last version

then we can see what happen afterward for 1-2 months

Thank you

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 10, 2016 09:24

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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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Wow. I love the idea of removing the minesweeper number from buried underlings.

With that in mind:


My suggestions:
swarmer +1 GL
pinzer +1 air
Remove buried underling indicator (maybe except in presence of an engineer type unit. Or just altogether!)


@apercent: I have no problem with Walkers being King. Just saying this is a way to make batteries more used, possibly. Have then be weaker overall and cost less. But I dunno maybe I am just under utilizing them. That's always possible ofc

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 10, 2016 14:09

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Apercent

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Apercent

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I think that your just under using them duaknesi. They're very useful. And although I don't see batteries being used much, that is true, most of the higher ups don't use artillery that often enless their khraleans. At least, that's what I usually see.

One solution to infector death is giving them the ability to bury. The ranged infection sounds kind of cool, but Xavier is into logic, and it doesn't make much sense that an infector can reach farther than an engineer.

Also, for t v t , we can always give eclipses more G.H. everyone seems to want the eclipse used more often, and that could be a solution

I agree with simverd, but only if the swarmer gets g.h. if it doesn't, then I think we should restore the wyrm to its former self.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 10, 2016 15:10

Max339

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Max339

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Dear developers, remove please redistribution damage after the attack unit. It spoils the balance games because there are such situations that damage along with gabom strongly underestimated. I think permanent, stable damage will be better.
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simsverd

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simsverd

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  Max339 wrote:Dear developers, remove please redistribution damage after the attack unit. It spoils the balance games because there are such situations that damage along with gabom strongly underestimated. I think permanent, stable damage will be better.

please stay on topic. this post is for discussing balance changes in units - not a post for feature requests. Please start a new post for that

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 11, 2016 19:31


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StarryBlink

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StarryBlink

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After the latest balance adjustment :

- Kharl become too weak in general.

- Kharl vs Titan seem to be equal.
I can't say kharl has an advantage over titan anymore.

- Kharl vs Sap. become more problematic.
Unless kharl player are really much better, sap will win.

- Sap vs Titan is now better.
Although titan still slightly dominate sap, it's alright.

So, my suggestions are :

Reverse some nerf you've done to kharl in the latest update.
It's a little bit too much.

- swarmer +1 ground-heavy attack.
- wyrm : restore the previous stat or +1 its aerial attack.
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Apercent

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Apercent

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So far we agree that...
Swarmer deserves a g.h of 5, but should keep its terrible defense
Wyrm should get aerial of 12 and keep its g.h
Pinzers should get 3 aerial

And it's generally agreed that
Swarmers should get 8 G.L

And it's controversial, if not completey disagreed with, that
Maruader should get less g.l
Battery should be cheaper
Eclipse should get an increase in GH
Infectors should get a raise in defense
Infectors should get a range of infection that goes from 1-2

So far so good, right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 12, 2016 17:07

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simsverd

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simsverd

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  Apercent wrote:
And it's controversial, if not completey disagreed with, that
Maruader should get less g.l
Battery should be cheaper
Eclipse should get an increase in GH
Infectors should get a raise in defense
Infectors should get a range of infection that goes from 1-2

So far so good, right?


Disagree much with battery being cheaper and also not needed to nerf the marauder more - changing this will affect other matchups negatively
...and no need to change anything on eclipse and infector (at least not this time)

Better focus on the important fixes :
- khral needs better tools to fight sap : swarmer buff vs the mara (and possible vs marines) and pinzer buff vs helis
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Abie

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Abie

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The problem for Sapiens is that when they face Titans, they have to get to Titans fast and don't let them get a walker. Once they have a walker you are almost always dominated. I've had a lot of difficulty winning as SvT. The walker range is just too deadly. You can only get a battery to kill a plasma. Otherwise a battery is not much use for S.
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Apercent

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Apercent

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Disagree much with battery being cheaper and also not needed to nerf the marauder more - changing this will affect other matchups negatively


I agree with you on that. I also would like to point out that some want the walker to be given a g.l of 9, so it can't one-shot engineer. I think that is a good idea, what do you think?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 13, 2016 22:34

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Apercent

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Apercent

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  Abie wrote:The problem for Sapiens is that when they face Titans, they have to get to Titans fast and don't let them get a walker. Once they have a walker you are almost always dominated. I've had a lot of difficulty winning as SvT. The walker range is just too deadly. You can only get a battery to kill a plasma. Otherwise a battery is not much use for S.


They are very useful in k v s and s v s. Maybe not so much in S v t, but what do you expect?
RaDmit

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RaDmit

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By changing the characteristics of units , how you do it , you can ruin the balance even more. I believe that a balance should be adjusted differently.
For example,
for Kharl - allow underling infecting plague marines .
for Sap - add battery capacity emp , when firing on the Titans , the battery will hit the target emp .
for Titan - give walkers the ability to shoot underling underground, possibly causing a 50 % damage , or perhaps 100 % . Assimilator must demonstrate underling underground at a distance of 5 hexes .
These abilities can be made available as from the beginning of the game, and make it possible to study them during the game for a certain amount , in one turn or several turns .
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simsverd

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simsverd

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  RaDmit wrote:By changing the characteristics of units , how you do it , you can ruin the balance even more. I believe that a balance should be adjusted differently.
For example,
for Kharl - allow underling infecting plague marines .
for Sap - add battery capacity emp , when firing on the Titans , the battery will hit the target emp .
for Titan - give walkers the ability to shoot underling underground, possibly causing a 50 % damage , or perhaps 100 % . Assimilator must demonstrate underling underground at a distance of 5 hexes .
These abilities can be made available as from the beginning of the game, and make it possible to study them during the game for a certain amount , in one turn or several turns .

"ruin the balance even more"... sounds familiar... i disagree with your premise - that the balance is "ruined". I really think that the latest unit changes was mostly positive, but that there is still some adjustments to be done.

Your suggestions is much more radical than the changes done and changes to be done in this round of adjustments... also, as far as i know it is not possible to apply these changes without a major rewrite anyway.. there is only possible to change the values or apply a special ability to another unit - for example it would not be possible right away to make the battery being able to shoot EMP shells... but it would be possible to give it EMP ability in the same way it works for the engineer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 14, 2016 14:46


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Kroeger

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Kroeger

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  RaDmit wrote:By changing the characteristics of units , how you do it , you can ruin the balance even more. I believe that a balance should be adjusted differently.
For example,
for Kharl - allow underling infecting plague marines .
for Sap - add battery capacity emp , when firing on the Titans , the battery will hit the target emp .
for Titan - give walkers the ability to shoot underling underground, possibly causing a 50 % damage , or perhaps 100 % . Assimilator must demonstrate underling underground at a distance of 5 hexes .
These abilities can be made available as from the beginning of the game, and make it possible to study them during the game for a certain amount , in one turn or several turns .



I am not sure why you started off with what seems to be an insult, but I like your ideas. The are very creative. I commend you for thinking outside the box. I agree with Sims that they are very big changes. Much bigger than we have been shooting for, but great none the less.

Sadly, all those ideas would require new programming so we can not entertain them for any of the upcoming updates; however, when the new units are introduced, we will consider all three of your ideas as we try to fix new issues introduced by the new units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 15, 2016 00:18

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