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New Units and why IAP can/will be a bad idea!...
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  StarryBlink wrote:I spent 5 dollars and already playing this game for 5 years. So it's no problem at all for me buying new units.

But the only thing I worry about is : how to allow newcomers try Uniwar in a fair game against another human online?

Unless they're absolutely craps, new units will definitely bring an advantage to players who have them someway.
When newcomers lose because they don't have those units. And they're still too new for Uniwar to buy an extra unit pack.
Then they might think : Well, this game is unfair. Let's find another game.

My suggested solution is : make new units enable only when players has score above 1700.

You will able to buy it after your score are above 1700. And you have to buy it only once.
But if your score drop below 1700, the extra unit pack will become disabled.
After you come back above 1700, it become enabled again. You don't have to buy it a second time.

This ensure newcomers with score around 1500-1700 will alway play a fair game against other players in their rank.
And after they play this game for a while and their score rise above 1700.
It's a good time for them to decide whether they want to be serious in Uniwar or not.


1) brilliant!

2) some caveats:
- for RANKED play only!
- maybe there could be a trigger in <1700 ranked games where if both players have the units, it will switch to a new unit game?

The reason I add this caveats is: I know we have some long tenured players who remain in the <1700 rank area. And I'm sure they're gonna want to play with new units but you're 100% correct and I think that's a really great idea overall!
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wookieontheweb

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wookieontheweb

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Are we simply stating that you can't use new units unless all players in the match have new units.

Might be exceptions for teams e.g. the same number of players in each team need to have new units. If the match is unbalanced in terms of new units then the highest rank team member(s) are blocked form using new units till both teams match.

Also should maps have a new units flag? Some maps might be fine now, but amphibious units could seriously affect which player can reach certain bases on their first turn for example. However it would be a shame to lose these maps if they are generally considered good.

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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  wookieontheweb wrote:Are we simply stating that you can't use new units unless all players in the match have new units.

Might be exceptions for teams e.g. the same number of players in each team need to have new units. If the match is unbalanced in terms of new units then the highest rank team member(s) are blocked form using new units till both teams match.

Also should maps have a new units flag? Some maps might be fine now, but amphibious units could seriously affect which player can reach certain bases on their first turn for example. However it would be a shame to lose these maps if they are generally considered good.


Currently the plan is:
Ranked games only the player who owns the IAP units can use them. So it is possible that one player will have IAP units and another will not.

Tournaments: all players have access to the same pool of units.

That is the cause for this discussion I believe. There have been propositions such as "classic" mode and "expansion" mode... But at this point it sounds like we are going to move ahead with the above proposed plan. This thread is a discussion of that however. So if you have any ideas, we are all ears

As for maps, I think it's better to let the voting system do its job ... Maps will get voted down and then replaced over time if they're not functional with all units. I think it'll happen naturally and fine. Def something to keep an eye on though ...
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Apercent

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Apercent

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Let people use the units when both players have the units, so that everything always balanced.

If we go with a scenario in with iap units are allowed free range we will obviously have a scenario in which some people have better stuff then others and therefore the game is unbalanced.

Don't tell me that the units will come up straight up balanced because that has never happened ever in the history of uniwar. Best case scenario they are too underpowered to matter, and then no one will ever buy them. Worst case , battles are dominated by only iap units.

This is the best option for xavi since it will force people to buy the new units in order to compete. This is the worst option for players because it tips balance.

The second option is to limit the units only to random ranked between two characters above 1700 and to any two characters with both the units in tournaments.

This is a sort of a compromise between xavi and friends and the players, but in my opinion this is still tilted in xavis favor, because this still means rank is dependent on wether you do or don't have the new units
I suppose this could be good for everyone who has unicoins. But this community typically doesn't like unbalanced games. I remember that even the maruader was a highly debated change.

The third option is the, I want to say, fairest, where there are two modes, with or without new units. This means that people who don't have them don't have to ever play against people with them. Essentially, this means no one needs to make a purchase tto be competitive - which is worse for xavi, although it doesn't mean he isn't going to make money

The last option is that the units are free and this is the best for us players, because we don't have to pay, but bad for xavi, cause he will not make any money for all the time he put into the game

Although I would prefer the last option being the cheapskate I am, I think the third option is the best for all of us because it means no one has to pay to be competitive- every game with thoose kind of purchases is bound to become a pay to play. And it also means that xavi gets money. We both get what we want or need if we go with this option without someone taking too much advantage over the other.

Last request - could we have a premium mode in which we get all the iap purchases at once?




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 06, 2016 21:32

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wookieontheweb

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wookieontheweb

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  Duaneski wrote:
Currently the plan is:
Ranked games only the player who owns the IAP units can use them. So it is possible that one player will have IAP units and another will not.

Tournaments: all players have access to the same pool of units.

That is the cause for this discussion I believe. There have been propositions such as "classic" mode and "expansion" mode... But at this point it sounds like we are going to move ahead with the above proposed plan. This thread is a discussion of that however. So if you have any ideas, we are all ears

As for maps, I think it's better to let the voting system do its job ... Maps will get voted down and then replaced over time if they're not functional with all units. I think it'll happen naturally and fine. Def something to keep an eye on though ...


I think the current plan would be fine for new races as each new race should just allow for different play style, but should still be balanced against the original races. Not sure it works for new units though.

One option is you have a team value. If you buy new units then you can swap in the new units in replacement of old i.e. Currently Sap have 100 + 200 + 250 + 400 + 500 + 650 + 800 = 2900 if some new unit types were "scout 50, amphibious 350, nuke 700" then you could mix and match from this larger set of units so long as you didn't go over your 2900 team cost. e.g. you could drop your tank but have an amphibious and scout instead (probably will have some restrictions such as you must have a naval unit and a basic unit), but then buying new units gives you choice not direct advantage.
This would allow Xavi to spam new units and get paid for each one without ever breaking balance.


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mistercreepy

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mistercreepy

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The normal vs expansion idea makes sense to me. And then in tournaments a "normal only" player could use the expansion units, if that was the theme of the tournament. Then you could expose"normal only" players to the new units.

Having games where one side doesn't have access to the same units is such a stupid idea... guaranteed to turn new players off, so if you go that route, you can pretty much write Uniwar off as an expandable source of income to the devs. Which would then mean no future development, and my board game will be the only way to play the game.

I just don't get it. I love the novel approach the devs are taking to monetize Uniwar and i get that needs to happen. But it seems like they are focusing on all the wrong things. I love my shiny flag, I'm happy to be a whale, but the game needs fresh players to keep it going, not the flag of Colorado etc.

Easy to criticize, hard to propose a solution. So here is my proposed solution: clean up the UI and tutorials. Hire a UI/UX designer to come in with fresh eyes - definitely not someone from within the community - and pay attention to their advice. I've had such a hard time getting new players, almost all of whom are gamers, to stick with the game and I think it's because of the nonintuitive interface and long tutorial. I hate things like badges and achievements but it might help provide the right kind of feedback loop to build up actual skill before a player is tossed into the ELO rankings. Most newbies don't stick with the huge long narrative driven tutorials, they want to play against randoms but that means they never learn all the units. Anyways. I said it'd be short but got carried away. Xavi et all, I believe you have my email address, please contact me if you'd like me to get you in touch with a UI/UX designer. And if not no worries, I know you are doing your best here and I definitely don't have all the info so apologies if I've made some wrong assumptions.

Rock on.

-creeps
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lodeous

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lodeous

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One thing to keep in mind is you will be able to earn unicoins through achievements. I have no clue how many unicoins you could potentially earn and what achievements there will be / how hard it will be to get achievements.

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mistercreepy

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mistercreepy

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Lodeous - I didn't know that. If there's a reasonable system of earning unicoins then I suppose that's not so bad. It'd no longer be pay to win but would be more like pay to not grind.

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Apercent

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Apercent

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  wookieontheweb wrote:
I think the current plan would be fine for new races as each new race should just allow for different play style, but should still be balanced against the original races. Not sure it works for new units though.

One option is you have a team value. If you buy new units then you can swap in the new units in replacement of old i.e. Currently Sap have 100 + 200 + 250 + 400 + 500 + 650 + 800 = 2900 if some new unit types were "scout 50, amphibious 350, nuke 700" then you could mix and match from this larger set of units so long as you didn't go over your 2900 team cost. e.g. you could drop your tank but have an amphibious and scout instead (probably will have some restrictions such as you must have a naval unit and a basic unit), but then buying new units gives you choice not direct advantage.
This would allow Xavi to spam new units and get paid for each one without ever breaking balance.


I don't like this idea, because it's more fun to be able to play with all your units, and more importantly, knowing that it will cost them a unit to play the new iap units will make the audience less likely to want to buy new units.
There's a saying, don't fix something that isn't broken. If so, no point in replacing your old units if they still work.
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xavi

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xavi

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I confirm that we are currently implementing ways to earn uni-coins that will be available very soon:

http://forum.uniwar.com/posts/list/2641.page#19101

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 16, 2016 08:44


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japhib

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japhib

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  StarryBlink wrote:I spent 5 dollars and already playing this game for 5 years. So it's no problem at all for me buying new units.

But the only thing I worry about is : how to allow newcomers try Uniwar in a fair game against another human online?

Unless they're absolutely craps, new units will definitely bring an advantage to players who have them someway.
When newcomers lose because they don't have those units. And they're still too new for Uniwar to buy an extra unit pack.
Then they might think : Well, this game is unfair. Let's find another game.

My suggested solution is : make new units enable only when players has score above 1700.

You will able to buy it after your score are above 1700. And you have to buy it only once.
But if your score drop below 1700, the extra unit pack will become disabled.
After you come back above 1700, it become enabled again. You don't have to buy it a second time.

This ensure newcomers with score around 1500-1700 will alway play a fair game against other players in their rank.
And after they play this game for a while and their score rise above 1700.
It's a good time for them to decide whether they want to be serious in Uniwar or not.


That's a really smart idea! It would also help newer players learn the basics of the game without being overwhelmed by all the choices of different units they can make.

It would also be good training to not go for the "coolest" unit, for example, when lower level Titan players build Eclipses because they're "cool" even though there isn't a significant air threat on the field. So they'd learn a bit faster that they can use smaller units like marines etc. and they're actually more cost-effective.
nindatana

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nindatana

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  StarryBlink wrote:You will able to buy it after your score are above 1700. And you have to buy it only once.
But if your score drop below 1700, the extra unit pack will become disabled.
After you come back above 1700, it become enabled again. You don't have to buy it a second time.


I've been playing almost everyday for 9 months, up to 14 games at a time, and I've only broken 1700 for 2 weeks.

I like the game a great deal, but am not very good relative to the rest of the field. This particular method for splitting would disenfranchise me and those like me.
nindatana

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nindatana

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  Apercent wrote:Let people use the units when both players have the units, so that everything always balanced.


This appeals to me, it's fair. Is the pool of active players large enough? What about when I want to play with my new IAP units but no one in my rank range is available to play against?
nindatana

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nindatana

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  mistercreepy wrote:
Easy to criticize, hard to propose a solution. So here is my proposed solution: clean up the UI and tutorials. Hire a UI/UX designer to come in with fresh eyes - definitely not someone from within the community - and pay attention to their advice. I've had such a hard time getting new players, almost all of whom are gamers, to stick with the game and I think it's because of the nonintuitive interface and long tutorial.


This is an important point. When I first started I had to work against the interface to get into the game long enough to find my personal enjoyment point. It was only the strength of a glowing review I read somewhere that had me persevere.
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xavi

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xavi

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We would love to learn more about what you find non intuitive. Over the past months, we significantly simplify the UI (its far from being perfect) and it had positive effects on the new players. It is still a rough start and a complicated learning curve...

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