[Search] Search   [Recent Topics] Recent   [Hottest Topics] Hottest   [Login] Login
Swarmer Attack Power Increase
Forum Index » General Discussion
[Avatar]
aLoN

Messages: 32,
Joined: Jun 12, 2009,
Offline

[Avatar]
aLoN

Messages: 32,
Joined: Jun 12, 2009,
Offline
  Hachiman wrote: I was wrong. Swarmer Spam IS all kinds of awful vs Saps

The nerf to Heli and Marauder has made them only about equal to Swarmers 1 on 1, but very underpowered vs Swarmers in numbers.

It is very hard to beat a Khral opponent who spams only Swarmers with Saps on Many maps.

I think the solution is to lower the Swarmers attack vs Air (and/or Ground heavy) a little - so that Heli's (and / or Marauders) can counter them again. Might make mirror matches more interesting too.



sapiens are better then khrals on most maps, i proved it before to people that were whining about the heli nerf and i will prove it to any one in game. i do like to play khrals but a good sapiens or titans player could stop khrals.
[Avatar]
aLoN

Messages: 32,
Joined: Jun 12, 2009,
Offline

[Avatar]
aLoN

Messages: 32,
Joined: Jun 12, 2009,
Offline
  ADHDeveloper wrote: 1- Me and hachiman played on a map with plenty of mountain + forest terrain. It did not matter.

2- Swarmer attack vs heli has not increased, but heli defence has recently decreased and marines which used to be a cheap way to damage the swarmer a bit( when mixed with heli's) are now hurt more by the swarmer and therefore die easier. \

3- Marauders were also nerfed recently causing even more problems vs swarmers.


The key point to note here is this. A swarmer fights uncontested. The only unit that can fire back at it is the Titan eclipse...the imbalance here is vs sapiens. Since a swarmer can fight uncontested, and is relatively cheap, therefore it can in small numbers seriously damage units before the units have a chance to fight back. Further more if a swarmer is damaged but not dead it can simply be retreated behind cover and healed over time. If done right the Khralean player comes out of the battle with minimal losses whereas the sapien is totally decimated.

Now this may not always be the case. On maps which are heavily forested/mountained, the sapien player could possibly win by spamming marines. The key issue there is the distance between the bases. While swarmers will find it easy to travel through air and spam one particular enemy base, the enemy has to move the marines slowly through dense terrain to get them to fight the swarmers.

If anyone else wants to play vs me and teach me a lesson in how to play Sapiens, I welcome it. I hope someone can show me how to beat them, because then I can actually beat the khralean players when I play sapien...because a LOT of khralean players are now spamming swarmers and not much else.





i can't read all this bullshit !!

a few days ago Bratwurst wrote on the chat that khrals are much overpowered and the devs did a bad job with the new changes.
i invited him to a game and he spammed ONLY swarmers and i showed him how useless they are agains my helis + engineer and a few marines.

people should think before they just build units and attack everything near them, this is a strategie game and not a gang up war......

sorry my english is not so good and it is hard for me to explain, but please before you keep writing this bullshit just invite to several games and i'll prove you my point, swarmers spam is USELESS against a good sapien or titan player.



Hachiman

Messages: 118,
Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
Offline

Hachiman

Messages: 118,
Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
Offline
just invite to several games and i'll prove you my point


Ok aLoN I would love you to teach me how to beat this tactic. I just invited you on Chato Hill. Take Sapiens and show me hows its done.
Anonymous

Anonymous
hachiman i've beaten your khraleans on chato hill, the great wall, wild plains, and probably a couple others i can't remember. i think you just play bad with khraleans.
Anonymous

Anonymous
hachiman i've beaten your khraleans on chato hill, the great wall, wild plains, and probably a couple others i can't remember. i think you just play bad with khraleans.


Maybe you have. I've experimented a bit on Chato Hill and Wild Plains at least, trying to see if a good player playing red Titans can be beaten by Blue Khrals (I don't think they can, at least on Wild Plains). I don't really care much about rating.

But if you say who you are I'm happy to admit you pwn me if you can beat me on Chato hill with me as Blue Khrals and you as red Saps.
Hachiman

Messages: 118,
Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
Offline

Hachiman

Messages: 118,
Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
Offline
I played aLoN several times.

He won twice with Sapiens.
I won twice with Khrals.

(he also won once with Titans, and surrendered first turn rather than fight on Chato Hill, which I take as a win).

He is obviously a much better player than me, and he chose the maps we played.

The maps he won either I didn't build swarmers b/c it was a naval map (Harbour), or it was too small a map (bases close together, little income) to build a critcal Swarm mass (Rocky).

I won on the Bog and Desolate with spammed Swarmers vs helis, marauders, marines and eng's.

To me this says that spammed Swarmers are very hard to beat on a non naval, non tiny map against Saps. aLoN is waaay better than me - I should lose almost every time to him.

ADHDeveloper

Messages: 20,
Joined: Jun 12, 2009,
Offline

ADHDeveloper

Messages: 20,
Joined: Jun 12, 2009,
Offline
He has not accepted my invite on Chato Hill yet. I'd love to play him.
Anonymous

Anonymous
i think what most people are complaining about is not the swarmer increase, but the random factor. sometimes a full health swarmer can do 5 damage to a troop and other times it only does 3. similarly, sometimes a swarmer does 1 damage to a heli, other times it does 3. it can really screw up your strategy because of this. turns the game more into a crapshoot than chess.

i would wager that if they made a setting or option available to turn off the random factor for a match, most people would do so.
lion37

Messages: 112,
Joined: Jun 13, 2009,
Offline

lion37

Messages: 112,
Joined: Jun 13, 2009,
Offline
  Anonymous wrote: i think what most people are complaining about is not the swarmer increase, but the random factor. sometimes a full health swarmer can do 5 damage to a troop and other times it only does 3. similarly, sometimes a swarmer does 1 damage to a heli, other times it does 3. it can really screw up your strategy because of this. turns the game more into a crapshoot than chess.

i would wager that if they made a setting or option available to turn off the random factor for a match, most people would do so.

Yes! Thank you for bringing up what I have been saying forever.
The random factors make this game more luck than skill and are subject to abuse by cheaters.
ADHDeveloper

Messages: 20,
Joined: Jun 12, 2009,
Offline

ADHDeveloper

Messages: 20,
Joined: Jun 12, 2009,
Offline
  Hachiman wrote: I played aLoN several times.

He won twice with Sapiens.
I won twice with Khrals.

(he also won once with Titans, and surrendered first turn rather than fight on Chato Hill, which I take as a win).

He is obviously a much better player than me, and he chose the maps we played.

The maps he won either I didn't build swarmers b/c it was a naval map (Harbour), or it was too small a map (bases close together, little income) to build a critcal Swarm mass (Rocky).

I won on the Bog and Desolate with spammed Swarmers vs helis, marauders, marines and eng's.

To me this says that spammed Swarmers are very hard to beat on a non naval, non tiny map against Saps. aLoN is waaay better than me - I should lose almost every time to him.


- Titan vs Khralean is not an issue. The eclipse works nicely vs swarmers. Heck even the Speeder works vs swarmers..
- Sapiens on Harbor cant be beat using swarmers. The Dreadnought takes good care of swarmers...

I have now beaten many other players in a Khralean vs Sapien matchup using swarmer spam. I am sure I am not the only one here who thinks swarmers are unbalanced...

aLon has not accepted my game invite in a few days now so I can only assume he does not want another loss.
Hachiman

Messages: 118,
Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
Offline

Hachiman

Messages: 118,
Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
Offline
I think it's unlikely he'll play you in a rated game, or on Chato Hill. Maybe try unrated on another map.
ADHDeveloper

Messages: 20,
Joined: Jun 12, 2009,
Offline

ADHDeveloper

Messages: 20,
Joined: Jun 12, 2009,
Offline
Then he has already conceded defeat.

aLon, you are welcome to send me an invite to an unrated game if you wish.
[Avatar]
aLoN

Messages: 32,
Joined: Jun 12, 2009,
Offline

[Avatar]
aLoN

Messages: 32,
Joined: Jun 12, 2009,
Offline
hachiman, i just started the game on chato hill by mistake by pressing the button "next game", i wansn't even gonna play it in the first place and don't be ridiculous, you didn't won that game, i didn't even finish round 1.

chato hill is an obvious khrals map, like there is maps for sapiens (harbor, roky, land bridge...) and maps for titans (deadmonk, great wall, piriapolis, starvation, laguna niguel...) and feel free to invite me to any other map exept desolate, chato hill, scramble, or green valey, and i'll play you. feel free to invite me to 5 or more games so we could really clear things out, i will not promis to win all but i'll sure show you that it is possible to win swarmers spam on some of our games.


by the way we didn't speak about khrals vs saps, we spoke about beating the swarmers spam which i did 3 times out of 5 games we had. titans or saps it does not matter.




ADH, just like i said to hachiman, invite me unrated on aLoN or rated on my other accounts Phingerz or 5M4LLD1CK, but please pick a well balanced map.

sorry for my english again.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 17, 2009 05:41

Anonymous

Anonymous
  aLoN wrote:ADH, just like i said to hachiman, invite me unrated on aLoN or rated on my other accounts Phingerz or 5M4LLD1CK, but please pick a well balanced map.

sorry for my english again.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was


So.... did you just admit to using multiple accounts? I can't imagine that the developers intended to be able to create trash account to boost your scores like that.

One could say that even though you only admit to having three accounts, that there are several more that you've since used to improve your PR.
Anonymous

Anonymous
aLoN,

No need to apologise for your english, it is perfectly fine. And I'm only talking Khrals vs Saps here, not Titans.

In regard to that Chato Hill game, all I am saying is that you didn't play because you knew Swarmer spam was unbeatable on that map. That's my point.

I take your point that Saps can win on some maps, and you proved that.

My point is that unless it is a very small map, or a water map (or maybe has very favourable terrain) Swarmer spam will always beat Saps. I don't think that is balanced. You can see that from the fact hardly any one is starting 1v1 games as Saps right now.

You didn't beat me at all with Saps on maps where swarmer spam will work. If the game was balanced, you should have, because you are a much better player than me.

I'm happy to test it out with you again. I'll invite you to a few games.
Forum Index » General Discussion
Powered by JForum 2.1.9 © - 2020-04-14 v124 - UniWar website