[Search] Search   [Recent Topics] Recent   [Hottest Topics] Hottest   [Login] Login
Why does our navy suck so bad
Forum Index » Khraleans
metadeity

Messages: 36,
Joined: Sep 09, 2012,
Offline

metadeity

Messages: 36,
Joined: Sep 09, 2012,
Offline
Pretty much useless except for maps with certain amounts of funding, the wyrm has greater effectiveness at the cost of healing movement and durability
[Avatar]
waxoid

Messages: 442,
Joined: Aug 07, 2010,
Location: Seattle, WA
Offline

[Avatar]
waxoid

Messages: 442,
Joined: Aug 07, 2010,
Location: Seattle, WA
Offline
Short answer is "because you've got a great air force", and the Levi needs to be used in coordination with the air units for maximal effectiveness. Yeah it's basically a water wyrm, and you would use it where you need the unit on water and not land. It's a fine part of naval combat when you need it. I believe we recently agreed to give it an anti-air +1 to help it be a more effective part of fighting helis (and it beats swarmer spam in k-k).
[Avatar]
StarryBlink

Messages: 184,
Joined: Jan 04, 2012,
Offline

[Avatar]
StarryBlink

Messages: 184,
Joined: Jan 04, 2012,
Offline
From the unit's profile, Levi is much more cost-effective than wrym.
Tougher, stronger gun, faster and repair+2.
The only disadvantage of levi vs wrym is it can't move on land.

Thus decision to build wrym or levi
mostly depend on amount and shape of water in the map.
If water in that map enable ships to go support my frontline battle effectively,
I usually consider levi prior to wrym.
[Avatar]
guolin

Messages: 50,
Joined: May 17, 2010,
Offline

[Avatar]
guolin

Messages: 50,
Joined: May 17, 2010,
Offline
Because, like most Khralean units, they are designed to be used en masse.

Garuda can't hold its own against Helicopters. But get a swarm of Garudas versus some Helis of the same cost, and you got yourself a pretty interesting battle there.

Swarmers can barely scratch most of the units in the game. But get two, and, in one turn without any counterdamage, you can take down infantry trying to capture a base or walkers/batteries that are trying to outrange you.

It's the same thing with Leviathans. Hydronauts and Destroyers destroy Leviathans in 1v1 duels, but a group of Leviathans should have the advantage (more hp because more units, and sheer damage) of a group of Hydros/Destroyers of the same cost.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 14, 2012 16:43

J.C.

Messages: 208,
Joined: Jul 05, 2011,
Location: Italy
Offline

J.C.

Messages: 208,
Joined: Jul 05, 2011,
Location: Italy
Offline
I think that this depends on how does the fight start and how big is the "sea" where battles takes place. for example, let's imagine that blue has 6 hydros and red 8 levis. i think that if hydros attack first, they will easily get rid of levis, due to their range.

at the same cost, in a big map, i think that hydros are op for khraleans

Test my maps:
1-on-1
ColdestPlace - Tiny Desert - SkyAndSand

3-on-3
DeadFlower
David

4-on-4
BasesGaloreXL6
BasesGaloreXL7
[Avatar]
waxoid

Messages: 442,
Joined: Aug 07, 2010,
Location: Seattle, WA
Offline

[Avatar]
waxoid

Messages: 442,
Joined: Aug 07, 2010,
Location: Seattle, WA
Offline
...but Garuda pwn hyrdros, cost for cost, even allowing hydros their first shots. So you mix those in, and you pick up some side benefits in doing so – i.e. Garuda fly over land too; more numerous units means more net gangup etc.

For most maps where there is a fair bit of land around, you often have cheap and plentiful swarmers, and they do 6 against Aquatic, so can help shred & finish naval along coastlines as well (e.g. +3 gangup off Garuda = 4 damage to hydro.)
Tomegun23

Messages: 10,
Joined: Sep 26, 2015,
Offline

Tomegun23

Messages: 10,
Joined: Sep 26, 2015,
Offline
Just wanted to add my two cents, I very much do not like the kharlean water unit and as a khralean player I rarely every use it and thats almost always just as a novelty. It has no place in my army because it has no niche, ranged dps 1-3 is already occupied by my wyrms. Other races water unit add another dimension of range and compliment their respective races other units. The leviathan does not. It is a slightly more expensive wyrm that can move 3 spaces instead of 2 and go in water (which usually is usually a limitation). Also vs its cohort of water units it is the weakest and since most people only get 1 or 2 water units it usually means uve wasted 600 if anyone else bought a water unit. The leviathan 10 10 9 12 is no stronger than the wyrms 10 10 11 10 either for most encounters in fact it's weaker vs airial so downgrade vs choppers or kvk. It has more def than the wyrm yes but this is negated by it's poor performance vs other water units. Its mobility is also a joke, as all water tiles cost 3 to move through so an 11 movment is always 3. There are no situations where those 2 points help. Just make it 9 and stop the lie. Also expensive units are best kept away from harm, the low range of the leviathan just increase it's likelihood of dying and going for one becomes more of a risk than a reward for saving.

The leviathan is mechanically unimaginative and not a good addition to the khralean army.

My thoughts on how to make it a better unit and actually viable. Obvious first suggestion would be to improve the range 1-4 or 2-4 since water tiles are usually very limiting, water units usually play as long range dps OR reduce the range and make it stronger however I doubt this will make it any better as you dont want expensive units fighting at close range. Third suggestion would be to leave the range the same but give the leviathan bury like underlings. Which actually makes sense since a leviathan would spend most of its time under water and not at the surface like boats. Then at least the leviathan can be used as sneaky ranged dps and increase its chances of acutally landing dmg.


amidama

Messages: 312,
Joined: Dec 28, 2015,
Offline

amidama

Messages: 312,
Joined: Dec 28, 2015,
Offline
leviathan is useless at any map right now
we could make it very short range (1-2? or even 1)
but with increased mobility and increased aquatius damage to be able to reach enemy ships and at the same time be useless at coastal defence to avoid leviathan swarming

reducing it vision to minimum would require some aerial units to follow them to work as their eyes

with this khraleans would build just enough ships to take enemys navy but not more
enemy may still build their ships for coastal defence, expecting khraleans to build too few levi or that he would able to destroy leviathans by other methods or by destroying flying scout above them

but right now i dont think that any sane player would actually build levi


Hakumen
keymaster2

Messages: 53,
Joined: Mar 15, 2018,
Offline

keymaster2

Messages: 53,
Joined: Mar 15, 2018,
Offline
if you have a sea battle with submerged krakens and you build a leviathan it will get destroyed so in that case as long as it is not placed next to a water tile, a wyrm would be better as the krakens will not be able to attack it
keymaster2

Messages: 53,
Joined: Mar 15, 2018,
Offline

keymaster2

Messages: 53,
Joined: Mar 15, 2018,
Offline
also normally a leviathan would be better than a wyrm in a matchup as the other expensive long range units (the battery and the walker) have lost 8 health when a leviathan would lose 4 health. i haven't had that situation with a wyrm but i can imagine its about the same.as a mostly khrealean player i use both.
Forum Index » Khraleans
Powered by JForum 2.1.9 © - 2020-04-14 v124 - UniWar website