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Cpt Hawaiian's Balance/Unit Ideas - Sapiens
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Cpt Hawaiian

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Cpt Hawaiian

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I know there are a few threads on balance and units, but I wanted to discuss a couple ideas of mine that I have formulated and tested in my mind.

I would like to discuss the addition of a new Sapien unit:

TACTICAL MISSILE: This unit would be a new type of unit to Uniwar in that it is expendable. Once it's used, it's gone. With gangup and smart tactics you can gain in credit trades incrementally with this unit.

Stats:
a. Range 2-3; move 1 space anywhere except mountains and sea; can move and fire
b. Attack: GH: 10; GL: 5; Air: 8;
c. Credits: 200

Matchup vs. speeder: you can hit a speeder and have a good chance of finishing it off with a marauder thereafter because of gangup if marauder uses both moves to attack. Tank follow up will mostly guarantee the death of the speeder. Mass speeders is a difficult thing for sapiens to handle right now, and this should help without being overpowered against it. Trade is +50 credits in sapien favor, which seems a fair trade.

Matchup vs. Plasma Tank: 2-3 damage at a cost of 200 credits. Protects your tanks as they follow up for the kill. Trade is +300 credits in sapien favor and paper tanks don't sustain as much damage during plasma kill. This should really help sapiens attack a titan front wall that has built up over time and become impenetrable.

Matchup vs. Garuda: this missile can be used to soften garudas for an easy kill. The trade is +150 credits in sapien favor and only about 2-3 hp cost to the chopper.

Matchup vs. swarmer it is a +50 credit trade to soften up swarmers for the easy kll.

Matchup vs. infestor: 2 rockets can get rid of a pesky infestor at a credit trade of -100. This seems a fair strategic price.

Matchup vs. chopper: against chopper it will do about 3-4 damage and allow follow up choppers to sustain less damage for the final kill. Now Sapien battles will have more options than mass choppers as well.


I'd also like to discuss a new sapien ability: NITRO for marauders.

Marauders get a cooldown ability called nitro which grants them a third move with 6 movement or so. This will allow them to get behind enemy lines and hit weak ranged units. Once they're behind enemy lines they're dead, so I think it's a fair trade. For example, a marauder can do about 5 damage to a walker, but sacrifice its 250 credits for that cause. Seems fair to me.

Also, nitro can be used in conjunction with tactical missiles to make a hole in a titan wall to shoot through.

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J.C.

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J.C.

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I like it!


but won't it make sapiens stronger than needed? at this time, they are already strong, this will give great possibilities as you imagined, especially for sap v sap. but nitro will make missiles really in danger

Test my maps:
1-on-1
ColdestPlace - Tiny Desert - SkyAndSand

3-on-3
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4-on-4
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talone

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talone

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It will be TOO strong for 200 credits and will unbalance the game. 2-3 damage for plasma for 200 credits only! Titan wil be crashed easily

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 28, 2012 07:13


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Cpt Hawaiian

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Cpt Hawaiian

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Talone, I bet if you were allowed to playtest this you would like it! Think about it, every two missiles on the field is one less tank on the field. So it's not overpowered in that way. Plus, it's expendable, so you shouldn't use it unless you are SURE you can make the kill. If you use two missiles on a plasma tank to take it down (you would still also need the help of at least one tank in this situation), you have still expended 400 credits to take down a 500 credit unit. So it is only a +100 credit advantage at that point, not really overpowered if you think about it! Plus, mobility and safety issues keep it balanced because the missiles are defenseless.

I really think you'd like it if you got to play with it. The way tactical missiles work is that they would provide strategic situations to gain very small credit advantages, since they are totally expended and lost when used. Runiwarriors everywhere would really benefit!


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talone

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talone

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My English is bad, so maybe I did not understand all the details of your offer. Possible after the test I'll change my opinion.
I really hope that before the introduction of new units in the game, will be their preliminary tests, which I am invited

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talone

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talone

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In general, it is good that there are new interesting ideas. Uniwar is a great game and it should be developed

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Chas

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Chas

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I would like to see this happen it seems balanced to me if it happens we've to see how it plays out through
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Wraithunter

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Wraithunter

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Wouldn't that unbalance titans?
The Saps get an artillery more powerful than walkers.
Titan plasma wall would prove insufficient since they are too slow to counter a sap tank wall (let's not forget about EMP to make that advance even slower)
Assimilator would get taken out by missiles so you cant repair your badly damaged tanks (while sap tank gets 4-6 repair every turn)

I think a tactical missile will overpower the titans because they cant get a good rush going (most of their units are too slow for the job) before the tank wall with engineers are out and the missiles start spamming at three range behind the engs.

May i ask though, how many speeders will it take to pop a missile?
Probably balances it out if you tell me.

Thanks
(Forgot to tell that to balance this out you need to actually add another unit to titans and kral, say perhaps a unit with point defense systems on it for titans.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 06, 2013 16:06

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Cpt Hawaiian

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Cpt Hawaiian

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Wraithunter:

Here's why I love the tactical missile idea.

VS. Speeders
First of all, mass speeders is overpowered against sapiens right now. A tactical missile will do about 6 damage to a speeder. Now a follow up with a marauder using gangup will do about 3, and occasionally 4 damage. Thus, sometimes the marauder will be able to kill and retreat, other times it can bring speeder to 1 HP and then retreat, or stay there and kill the speeder, (leaving it vulnerable to counter attack, as marauders are paper defense)

The net gain? Only 50 credits. You spent 200 credits on an expendable missile and killed a 250 credit unit. Perfect in my book!


OVERPOWERED?
I don't think so. If anything I am thinking an increase to ground light damage might even be justified. Think about it, if you spend a 200 credit unit to kill a 100 credit enemy infantry, you have lost 100 credits compared to the enemy. So it would only be worth it to save a base steal. Which is great and strategic! You must lose 100 credits (compared to the enemy), but you have saved your base from a steal. So you can only use such a strategy for so long before you are suffering in increasing comparative credit losses.







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Wraithunter

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Wraithunter

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Missiles arent smart early on as they can get easily rushed. But as sap I only need to turtle with tanks and wait for a proper wall to stand. After the wall is complete speeders wont be so good since my missiles are well protected. Plasma tank wall collapses because 2 missiles (400 creds) will reduce the plasma tank to very low HP which the tank wall will easily finish it off. Eclipses cant do much because tanks shred them with ease. I'm not good as a titan player and there might be something I've missed to counter a tank wall backed up with engs and missiles.

If there isnt Sap-Titan combat will be reduced to an artillery game where both players turtle and shoot each other with missiles and walkers.

There might be a mistake to what I've said and correct me if I;m wrong but this is how I see missiles right now. Perhaps you could change my mind in any way?
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Cpt Hawaiian

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Cpt Hawaiian

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  Wraithunter wrote: Missiles arent smart early on as they can get easily rushed. But as sap I only need to turtle with tanks and wait for a proper wall to stand. After the wall is complete speeders wont be so good since my missiles are well protected. Plasma tank wall collapses because 2 missiles (400 creds) will reduce the plasma tank to very low HP which the tank wall will easily finish it off. Eclipses cant do much because tanks shred them with ease. I'm not good as a titan player and there might be something I've missed to counter a tank wall backed up with engs and missiles.

If there isnt Sap-Titan combat will be reduced to an artillery game where both players turtle and shoot each other with missiles and walkers.

There might be a mistake to what I've said and correct me if I;m wrong but this is how I see missiles right now. Perhaps you could change my mind in any way?


In essence, titan vs. saps is already an artillery game. Saps need to get out artillery early and try to prevent titans from putting up a strong wall, of which if they do, titans will win because walkers will then outrange the sapien player and overpower him.

I am a very good titan player, and if a sapien turtles against a titan, he is playing incorrectly and will lose to a good titan player. I can show you in a game if you like. Walkers outrange all other units, and the titan player walls until he can outrange his opponent safely.

If you spend 400 credits on tactical missiles to heavily damage a 500 credit plasma, you have only gained a 100 credit advantage if you finally kill the plasma thereafter with one of your own tanks. Doesn't really seem overpowered, especially considering that having 2 missiles (400 credits) means you have one less tank (400 credits) on the field.

If this could be playtested I really think people would realize how not overpowered it is. It is not a unit that can attack over and over again. It is a 200 credit loss every time it's used and then it's gone. I envision that a smart sapien would build maybe one early, then maybe two or more in a late game stalemate. It is a great unit to prevent stalemating.

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Wraithunter

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Wraithunter

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I'd like to tackle an elite of uniwar and learn alot. Of course I dont turtle because titan late game is legendary and I'll have my rear kicked... It wont be an artillery as I dont have the missiles yet but I could learn something from the match. Id be happy to play you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 18, 2013 23:21

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