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simsverd

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simsverd

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It is planned to launch an in-game tournament feature to uniwar in the coming months (summer?).

An in-game feature wil mean that all actions take place from within the client-server-webpage, from creation, registration, matchups, creation of games, gathering of results.
There will be both official tournaments and player created tournaments. There will have to be some kind of control on who gets to create tournaments (both player and official).
The parameteres will be choosen by the player hosting, and can be:
- format (single elimination/round robin/other)
- order (random/by score)
- rated/unrated
- duration of each turn and round
- mirror/single games
- maps
- races (choosen/fixed/random)
- prerquisite to join
- IAP ?
- prizes
and other...

What is not open for discussion is the fact that this has to be scalable.. this means that automation of results and unfinished games will be part of the feature. We are planning to use the current method from FrozenPlanet and DoubleImpact - and if needed and possible improve upon that method.

Tourneys should be fun for all players : newbie, casual player and serious top player - and the coming features in itself will not discriminate as such..

... but how to create tourneys that top players can use as "the ultimate show of skill"... but equally important - make tourneys that players of lesser skill can last more than the first round...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Mar 08, 2015 10:06


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rwieczor84

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rwieczor84

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it would be great if you could create separate ladder for tourneys.
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xavi

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xavi

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New ladder are coming for 2 players, 3 players and 4 players teams.

-= The UniWar Team =-
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simsverd

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simsverd

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The automatic resolving of unfinished games seems to be the most controversial issue for some players.
Opponents will naturally have diametrically different interest if they see that games will not finish, thus will "playing for time" be an issue that needs to be adressed.
Players/teams that are leading will profit from dragging out the time to try to win by kill/loss-ratio.
Some have suggested a "Time-bank" (like in chess) or awarding speedy play, but that would not be very fair since there can be perfectly good reasons for using the given time, and also different timezones...

I think that the best solution will be as short turns as possible (12 hrs) and to give enough time to start with, for example 2 weeks in 1:1, 3 weeks in 2:2 and so on..

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Mar 08, 2015 10:09


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mistercreepy

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mistercreepy

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It would be great if we could have the ranking of each player posted on the tournament page. That way we can more easily spectate as the matches unfold. This idea was originally posted in the game chat by Dan1 I think. (Sims I hope that I'm putting this somewhere helpful.)
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simsverd

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simsverd

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Agree. Its probably easy to do for Xavi... but the hard part is how to present it well on a mobile device..

I would also wish for a "spectator mode" in tourney matches. Possibly as an IAP

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luis91

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luis91

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I dont know if this is the right thread for this, but i try ( if not just tell me and i create a new one ^^ ).

I would really love to see a Uniwar league, similar like a tournament.
You register for the league, if you want to participate.
A league consists of 18 players and everybody is playing against everybody with mirrored matches. So there a 17 matchups per person and 34 games in total. Every week 3 new matchups will start and only 2x2 in the 6th week and after 8 weeks the season finishes ( if there are unfinished games same rules like in the tourneys ). The winner of every matchup is getting 3 points, draws 1 point, loss 0.

Then the first players will advance to the higher league ( if they are not already ) and the last people will get down to a lower league and then the next season will start.

It could be 1 first league, 2 second leagues, 4 3rd leagues, 8 4th leagues and so on. The 2 best people of every league advance to a higher league and the lowest 4 go down.


I think that would be really nice and maybe a better way to see your "real" ranking than the current rankings and tourneys ( because in a tourney the second best player can still lose in round 1 ).

If you like the idea and think that it could be a feature sometime in the far future i would write more ideas about that in a new thread ( i have some more detailed thoughts about that ).
So what do you think about that idea in general?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 20, 2015 12:23

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simsverd

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simsverd

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"Playing for time"

With hundreds of players in a tourney and thus many rounds to complete it, there will have to be limits on how long a round can last.
When hosting private tourneys this will be possible to set and change by the tourney admin, but in the larger and official tourneys there is need for limits for how long a round can be.
Matches will have to be decided automatically when this time runs out and game is not finished normally.
With automation comes incentive and possibilities to abuse - "playing for time".

Player leading in bases/credit wil have incentive to either win the match fast or delay so that automatic win will give as few rounds as possible.

The "obvious" solution would be to penalize a game won by automation... for example by giving it rounds used = max rounds used from other game(s) + 1

But what will happen if an automatically decided game is less worth?
At the start of a mirror match or round robin it will be an incentive for all to take the turns pretty fast - with the goal to finish the game.
...but if a player win his first game (mirror or round robin) and see that he will loose the other... he will have a very strong incentive to prolong the match so it is decided on automation - thus making him the winner if the automated game is less worth.

Other possible solutions to this unvanted behaviour?
- longer round times- with the effect that the tourney takes much longer time
- shorter turn time - anything shorter than 12 hrs will probably not be very viable for many players..
- change the priority on winning to kill/loss before rounds to win - this will probably not be better, since some race/map scenarios affect volume on kill/loss so much it gives wrong indicator on skill.. and it will probably not change the incentive to "play for time"
- use maps that are very dynamic, for example with neutral bases to fight for, wich will lead to shorter games in most scenarior/matchups. - the danger here is the use of too unbalanced maps
- make it possible (technical) for the tourney admin to select stages to be without time limit. For example semifinals and final - will make the tourney take longer time, but can be ok if onlly done on the last rounds. (its possible now for tourney admin to manually change round duration at any time)
- others?

Any good ideas on how to minimize the effect from "playing for time" would be welcome. Remember that the solutions must be scalable.. and manual evaluation will not be part of the bigger tourney

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Jun 07, 2015 09:47


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Das_z

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Das_z

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1. 1/4final,1/2 and final games played to win.
2. If move is made one hour before the end, the extra time given.
3. The positive balance of the losses for several moves that exceed the total income from the bases.

Sorry for my English).
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simsverd

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simsverd

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  Das_z wrote:1. 1/4final,1/2 and final games played to win.
2. If move is made one hour before the end, the extra time given.
3. The positive balance of the losses for several moves that exceed the total income from the bases.

Sorry for my English).


Thank you for the suggestions

Does 1. and 2. mean to automatically extend the time in finals/semfinals if a move is made right before the time runs out ? If so for how long? 12 hrs? 24 hrs?
The round duration can technically be manually changed before or during the tournament by the "tournament administrator". Currently this is Xavier, but in the future a select group of players can be given this role on a permanent or limited time.
I think that automatically extending time or remove time limit can be an option for the tourney administrator. Its probably easy to make.

3. i dont understand the meaning of this.. can you explain with other words?

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Das_z

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Das_z

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1, 2 and 3 different methods.
in the 2nd method is a protection against move of the enemy on the last minute round.
3 method involves calculate not the value of killed units of the end of round, but change this value from the previous Rounds. For example in the previos round I had a advantage in 300 killed units, in this round of the advantage has become 100, means no victory conditions, it is necessary to add an extra round.
Das_z

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Das_z

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And another. The most owned bases, does not always mean victory. It is necessary with this rule too that something.
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simsverd

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simsverd

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ah.. thx for the clarifications

So the ideas are :
1. Not have limits in 1/4, 1/2 and finals.
2. Extend time automatically based on continued moves close to end time
3. Extend time automatically based on the leading players lead is decreasing
4. Most bases dont mean victory

I agree that 1-3 could be an option selectable by the tourney admin. But the same effect can be done as the feature currently is developed : The tourney admin can manually at any given time extend the time of a round of a tourney. I think its better to find a practical solution to how the rules of each tourney are communicated.
For example - the organizer decide that he will extend the finals as much as needed to finish with a normal win or surrender.

4. I disagree with you on that one. The fact is - some games wil have to be forced decided automatically, and owned bases at the end of players equal ammount of turns is a better parameter than kill/loss.
But same thing apply here as above.. there is possible to set tourney rules where either tourney admin extends rounds at his own accord or by the request of the players.

Remember one thing is the technical implementation of the tourney feature - the practical organization and rules for prolonging rounds can be different

PS! There is currently a bug with the algorithm wich allow last player to make his round count. This will soon be fixed and it will be so it counts kill/loss towards equal ammount of rounds.

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volf

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volf

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Do we even need time limits in the semifinals and finals? Turn limits yes, so that the players actually move. However, there is no big hurry is there? Or lengthen the semis and finals to twice as long as any other round just in case you have a marathon. That should give the match time to complete and you will not have this problem of people complaining there should have been more time.
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simsverd

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simsverd

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  volf wrote:Do we even need time limits in the semifinals and finals? Turn limits yes, so that the players actually move. However, there is no big hurry is there? Or lengthen the semis and finals to twice as long as any other round just in case you have a marathon. That should give the match time to complete and you will not have this problem of people complaining there should have been more time.

yes.. as i have said many times now.. this is more a matter of what rules that apply for a specific tournament (how the tournament is organized and administrated), rather than how the technical in-game-tourney feature with tourney admin access work. The technical part is pretty simple - it is possible to extend times indefinately if needed. The reason for limited time is obvious when some of the tourneys have 9-10 rounds.

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