Abie
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Abie
Messages: 98,
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Uniwar Community,
I would like to ask if the Community can assist me in identifying maps that are currently rated, and whether the map is really fair or unfair. I want to create two lists, one for rated maps that are fair for all of the 9 race combos, and one where it is deemed unfair for any race combo.
The race combos are as follows:
KvK
SvS
TvT
KvS & SvK (Where both races go first in the matchup)
TvS & SvT
TvK & KvT
The reasons that you can consider a map as unfair are very broad. Believe it or not, I think that at least 10% of the games I play are unfair in some small way.
Fair Maps - Maps that are considered fair for all the 9 race combos (listed above)
Cash
ClamJam
Black Diamond
TinyDesert
Unfair Maps - Self-explanatory
Pond
Gooniewarz
findx2
CapturingTheStorm
Scramble
Gruntv2 (see my replay)
Demer11
RebelStrut82183
Tunguska Lake
Diamondsforever
Once you find a map that is fair or unfair, that you think you can make a legitimate judgment of, please reply to this post, and I will add them these lists.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at Apr 07, 2016 12:16
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amidama
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amidama
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i did see somewhere huge list of maps with specification of fair/unfair from the talone, but cant find where it was. he gave his opinion about more than 20 maps. that could be a good addition to your list.
I do remember that he kept using caps, like FAIR / UNFAIR, and there was very little other text. just the map name and opinion about it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jan 01, 2016 18:26
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xavi
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xavi
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In order to reduce the number of unfair RATED maps used in RANKED games, we are discussing several adjustments. We will post them here soon once we reach a conclusion and once we have implemented them. Among the possible changes:
1) vote affecting RATED maps will be weighted by player score
2) RATED maps will be EVALUATED per race combo to avoid race issues. A map will be shown as RATED if ANY combo is RATED but it will only be selected for RANKED games in the RATED combo (=considered fair enough). We plan to display the stats PER race combo as we have them available.
3) We are considering forcing all bases to be owned from the beginning and giving half credits to the beginning player on the 1st turn to limit 1st mover advantage.
Please feel free to give us feedback.
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legia
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legia
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xavi wrote:
1) vote affecting RATED maps will be weighted by player score
Good. Lower leveled players don't know all balance problems on different maps. It's very hard to fairly vote on map balance.
xavi wrote:
2) RATED maps will be EVALUATED per race combo to avoid race issues. A map will be shown as RATED if ANY combo is RATED but it will only be selected for RANKED games in the RATED combo (=considered fair enough). We plan to display the stats PER race combo as we have them available.
Great idea! Many maps are good for one race matches, while very bad for others.
xavi wrote:
3) We are considering forcing all bases to be owned from the beginning and giving half credits to the beginning player on the 1st turn to limit 1st mover advantage.
I don't like this one. Fighting for free bases is one of the better factors in uniwar. It forces activity and fight from the 1st rounds not just waiting to good moment to attack or building your defence.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Jan 02, 2016 20:49
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Abie
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Abie
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xavi wrote:In order to reduce the number of unfair RATED maps used in RANKED games, we are discussing several adjustments. We will post them here soon once we reach a conclusion and once we have implemented them. Among the possible changes:
3) We are considering forcing all bases to be owned from the beginning and giving half credits to the beginning player on the 1st turn to limit 1st mover advantage.
Please feel free to give us feedback.
I happen to agree to a limited extent, as well as disagree in other ways. I disagree with doing this because Legia hit the nail right on the head. Fighting for free bases is one of the better factors of Uniwar. For example, look at the maps "Xenospore mini" or "Omega". These are examples, where it is about fighting for the middle base.
A fix to the even bases is making maps where both sides have to do base capturing at the start of the game, for example the map "Pond" or "BigValley1" and give both sides more starting bases.
Look at the map BigValley1. Both sides start with 1 base and zero units. There is also 6 open bases, 3 on each side, that can be captured. The most likely first turn for both sides is to get an infantry unit, and then capture a base. What should be changed in the map "BigValley1" is that both teams start with 3 bases each, and maybe a 4th base.
I just started a game on the map "Green Isle" and my opponent went first. Both teams start with 2 infantry units on board, and my opponent killed an underling before I even had my first turn.
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guinwza
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guinwza
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I like this topic, I wish this will quickly remove all unfair map from random pool 
Please check map "capturing the strom" in KvT when Titan get first turn they can mass teleport and block underling from capture their neutral for many turn this probably give titan too high resource advantage IMO (I dunno if there's anyway for K to counter this tactic though)
also someone please advice me how to play titan on "The great wall" , I know I can defen everything flying with eclipse and walker but it's very hard to go offensive with only light units teleport especially when opponent mass tank on defense.
there's much more but i cant remember them all for now.
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Abie
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Abie
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guinwza wrote:I like this topic, I wish this will quickly remove all unfair map from random pool
Please check map "capturing the strom" in KvT when Titan get first turn they can mass teleport and block underling from capture their neutral for many turn this probably give titan too high resource advantage IMO (I dunno if there's anyway for K to counter this tactic though)
I agree with that map. Oddly enough, I started a random game, and they gave me that map as Titans and I went first. Therefore I have an unfair advantage because of that.
That map has been added to the list.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 04, 2016 15:18
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earth
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earth
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xavi wrote:
3) We are considering forcing all bases to be owned from the beginning and giving half credits to the beginning player on the 1st turn to limit 1st mover advantage.
Please feel free to give us feedback.
 This is a very bad idea... Please do not implement as will limit the game fun significantly. I don't know who put that idea forward, neutral bases are fundamental part of game and strategy.
By the way any news when Khral swarmer get reset back to allow them to be a competitive unit with similar priced units?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 04, 2016 23:54
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Neiko
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Neiko
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earth wrote:
xavi wrote:
3) We are considering forcing all bases to be owned from the beginning and giving half credits to the beginning player on the 1st turn to limit 1st mover advantage.
Please feel free to give us feedback.
This is a very bad idea... Please do not implement as will limit the game fun significantly. I don't know who put that idea forward, neutral bases are fundamental part of game and strategy. i have to agree here. Maybe it is because of my history with starcraft but i love neutral bases. It gives you the risk/reward factor of rushing and fighting for those bases or getting a good standing army to try and over power him before the income increase really kicks in for them.
I also find myself looking for the fastest and safest ways to expand on maps. Sometimes it is more beneficial to capture that closer base sooner, but maybe i can apply pressure faster with reinforcements if i go for that further base.
Tldr, i really enjoy neutral bases for various reasons and would be sad to see them go.
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In game name is the same as here "Neiko".
Long time Starcraft/Advance wars player before coming to Uniwar. I also try to make balanced maps, so feel free to check out my maps in game and provide me feedback |
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Abie
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Abie
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Neutral bases are an extremely fun part of the game. I would be extremely disappointed if there are no maps with them, especially on maps where fighting in the center for that base is everything.
The neutral bases in the middle maps are the hardest bases to capture, you just have to be very selective on what type of map can have them. It is not easy to make a map with a middle neutral base. But on the few maps that have them, for the most part, they are fun and challenging for both sides.
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simsverd
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simsverd
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xavi wrote:
3) We are considering forcing all bases to be owned from the beginning and giving half credits to the beginning player on the 1st turn to limit 1st mover advantage.
Please feel free to give us feedback.
I agree that it must be considered in some tourneys, for example a tourney for inexperienced players, but I very much disagree to not have neutral bases in the game anymore.. that would severly limit the tactical options in the game
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Send me a PM here or invite me to a game if you want to ask me something, suggest a map for tourney or just wanna play a game  |
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Abie
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Abie
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I think that for tournaments this is not a bad idea, but it also depends on the tournament and the map, and the races of both sides.
The fact is that Sapiens always have an advantage because of the marauders. On a map where both sides need to cap like 3-5 bases, Marauders can come out and stop them, while at the same time cap there own few bases.
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Abie
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Abie
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Another map is Scramble
Please see my replay that is archived - "Random-231478"
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LkASr
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LkASr
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ok question, how is CapturingTheStorm unfair? Tho I can tell on Scramble (no only forest edge and a pair of swamps in the center, and also good for symmetrical battles) and findx2 (+ to Khrals, - for Titans, only good for symmetrial battles) idk about GoonieWarz tho, and what Pond are you taking about? Any interacial handicapped maps are only fair for symmetrical battles (SvS, KvK, TvT). Also, consider HavocPit, it may be disadvsntaged against Titans.
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TheDragon
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TheDragon
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hmm, had a ranked game against a titan player (smallish map, starting with 2 grunts and 2 bases, no clue as name) and due to teleporting and me going second I was cockblocked from my 3rd base. So in that case it was imballanced but only if titan was player 1 (if titan was second then no issue) we had an interesting conversation about it but at 4 bases to 2 I did loose out (though he said I put up a great defense for what I had)
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