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New Unit idea - Colossal Units *poll*!
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What say you to colossal units?
HECK YES!!! MUST HAVE NOW 13% [ 3 ]
Sign me up! 13% [ 3 ]
I could go either way 13% [ 3 ]
I don't like it 21% [ 5 ]
Good idea, but needs balanced extensively before I would agree 42% [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 24
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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Colossal units

Colossal units can move only one space per turn. Unless a colossal is aerial, it can not move on or past mountain tiles. Colossal units are large enough to wade through water, but may take extra damage while doing so.

Repairs for colossals are also very slow, requiring multiple nearby engineers to repair even a single point of damage.

Colossals take two turns to build, they are paid for and exist inactively on the base turn one, and can not defend themselves. for the second turn they can not move but can defend, before finally being made fully functional on the third turn.

[white] Each player may only have one colossal at any time. [/color]

[red] once you build a colossal, if it dies you lose the game immediately [/color] - thanks mistercreepy

Sapiens
Airship Salvation
Aerial Colossal
Cost 1500
GL 10
GH 11
Air 11
Aq 10
Range 1-3
Defense 13
Attacks per turn: 2

Special ability: advanced deployment: marines can be built adjacent to the Salvation.

Adjacent engineers needed to repair damage: 3

The Salvation is immune to 'stun', plague, and UV

The Salvation may sacrifice its attacks to move one extra space this turn.

Khraleans
Kraken
Colossal
Cost: 1500
GL 15
GH 5
Air 5
Aq 12
Range 1-2
Defense 15

Attacks per turn: 5
Special ability: Bury (2 turn Cooldown after resurfacing)

Adjacent infectors required to repair damage point: 2

The Khralean player does not lose if the Kraken is destroyed. Only one kraken can be built per match.

Kraken is immune to UV

Titans
Sentinel
Colossal
Cost: 1500
GL 20
GH 16
Air 12
Aq 16
Defense 15
Range 2-4
Attacks per turn: 1

Special ability: UV (can be used one time every turn in addition to the sentinel's one attack)

Adjacent assimilators required to repair one damage point: 0

Sentinel is immune to EMP.

--

1. I don't imagine these units affecting competitive play much. Most pro / tournament maps are purposefully made to be quick affairs. These units are by design specifically for the built up type game that many casual or team players may enjoy.
2. Titans currently have the best odds to win those buildup games. This gives the saps and khra a fun, interesting option for how to counter that, without just being an auto win button. Limiting these units to one per player ensures that they won't be spammed across the board. Their movement speed and time to build also means that it'll take time for them to affect a non-defensive battle.UW



This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at Sep 25, 2016 03:26

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Duaneski

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I'm looking at these units now in relation to each other and what I am seeing is that the kraken and salvation would have a very close battle with one another. But neither of them have an answer for the sentinel

I think this might be okay, since it in the end just gives the Titans another "best" kind of unit. And if the saps or khra can use their colossal to break the turtle game, then they should have enough tanks or pinzers to take down the sentinel the old fashioned way. (Without their colossal contributing.)

Alternatively, the sentinel may be OP compared to the other colossals. Or maybe they just need more GH... Or some way to focus their attacks into one very GH effective attack.

Or I could make the sentinel range 2-4 to give him a weakness. That could work nicely....

Options.

But I don't want to mess with it too much currently. Would love to get some opinions first. I'm leaning range 2-4 on sentinel. I don't love it given what I was picturing, but as far as balance I kind of love that solution.
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Apercent

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Apercent

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What if strategists stacked on top of stragetist could convert units into collosals? And, upon conversation, collassals become controlled by AI who want to kill everyone?
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  Apercent wrote:What if strategists stacked on top of stragetist could convert units into collosals? And, upon conversation, collassals become controlled by AI who want to kill everyone?



*duaneski's head exploses*
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Apercent

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Apercent

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Lol

I'm not sure if that was good or bad...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Feb 16, 2016 03:52

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Apercent

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Apercent

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Arguabments in favor of a terror unit instead of a collassal
Collassals cost 1500. Where is anyone supposed to come with that money?
Terrors only have to cost 600 (2 stragetist). And you don't have to worry about them costing too little, because they are technically against everyone

Collassals have to worry about being too indestructible. Terrors don't have to, and I've said this before, because they are against everyone

Collassals have to be built on bases, and considering their speed, it might be more beneficial to have them built in a battlefield (not to mention, awesome)

The drawback is that they can only be built by one race, which kind of sucks. We could make terrors be buildable by any race though, that might solve the problem

Another thing, maybe we can make a "collassal" base where you can only make collassals, and that becomes the center of battle? And said base can only be captured by 3 infantry, instead of one? It's just a thought. I see the major set back is it being too expensive right now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 16, 2016 15:55

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Apercent

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Apercent

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As for Titans collassals, I'd rather have a battery that instantly recharges any assimilators than a giant assimilator. Maybe the battery can also give walkers the ability to shoot twice. Go double its value.
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  Apercent wrote:As for Titans collassals, I'd rather have a battery that instantly recharges any assimilators than a giant assimilator. Maybe the battery can also give walkers the ability to shoot twice. Go double its value.


I'm not opposed to any updates you would want to make with the Convergence in regards to a new unit or unit type.

But I think these units would change the end game possibilities significantly with the Races currently in Uniwar.

The question of "where does a player get 1500 credits" is an interesting one.

Saving up 800 for a destroyer or Walker, on some maps, is a really tough decision. It can decide who wins. Do it too early, and you've likely already lost the land battle. Too late, and your opponent beats you to the punch and controls the sea.

So, this is that decision, except on a larger scale. And, to be clear, this is not a unit for every map. Small maps with 1-2 bases should never see a colossal Come into play, except in MAYBE the most stand off ish of games. Even then if you're Saving credits for 7 turns, at some point your opponent should have a chance to attack, so it may not be a good idea even in a stand off.

But on a large map with 3-4 bases, or a medium map with 5-6 bases (chess2344, snow fire 1972 for example), it would be maybe 1-3 turns to save up. No biggie. And still the timing would be key, I imagine.

As for changing the sentinel to recharge assimilators ... UV is such a potent ability. More than 1 a turn can be deadly... I wouldn't want this to be able to recharge more than one assimilator per turn anyway, so just giving the sentinel the ability is an easy choice.

I like that aspect of the sentinel.
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Apercent

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Apercent

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Well, to me the Titans and khraleans seem kind of OP at the cost.
First we have the sentinel, which is pretty indestructible.
Second, we have the kraken, also indestructible
The sapiens seems pretty balanced to me.

let's say I buy 3 plasmas. They would barely scratch the kraken, and all would get decimated. Don't even get me started on the sentinel.

Also, we don't want people spamming one unit, and that's what these will lead to. We want all units to have equal value and be of equal value.

That's why I say that having a terror that's controllable by an AI rather than either player would be better than a collassal.

Also, the collassals don't seem to add anything to their races (other than saps). That's why I said a battery would be good for Titans, because it works with the race. The kraken and sentinel both seem to just be the kind of units you'd use all by themselves.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Feb 16, 2016 16:42

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Apercent

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Apercent

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And I don't imagine terrors as units. I imagine them as forces of nature. Collassals are just units
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  Apercent wrote:Well, to me the Titans and khraleans seem kind of OP at the cost.
First we have the sentinel, which is pretty indestructible.
Second, we have the kraken, also indestructible
The sapiens seems pretty balanced to me.

let's say I buy 3 plasmas. They would barely scratch the kraken, and all would get decimated. Don't even get me started on the sentinel.

Also, we don't want people spamming one unit, and that's what these will lead to. We want all units to have equal value and be of equal value.

That's why I say that having a terror that's controllable by an AI rather than either player would be better than a collassal.

Also, the collassals don't seem to add anything to their races (other than saps). That's why I said a battery would be good for Titans, because it works with the race. The kraken and sentinel both seem to just be the kind of units you'd use all by themselves.


Kraken has the same GH as a helicopter. So it does get the 5 attacks, but even with all 5 attacks it might not kill even one plasma a turn. The plasma is going to do 2 damage to the kraken with any sort of gang up bonus at all. Not to mention support from walkers or, importantly, a sentinel.

The sentinel may be too strong stat wise, but those can definitely be adjusted. Right now they deal 7 to a plasma, but only get one attack. They would get dealt 1 hp by a plasma. They're beasts.

You mention spamming, and under the unit type I mentioned specifically that each player can own only one colossal at a time. So that shouldn't be a concern.

These are meant to be army centerpieces... Not every unit you own.

I think the kraken significantly amplifies the bury and strike game of the Khra. Potentially allowing them to strike into a turtled Titan better.

The sentinel is a powerful piece that amplifies the turtling capacity of the Titans, or gives them a unit which can spearhead a slow methodical march forward.

We can all agree the salvation is awesome, at least, I guess
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Apercent

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Apercent

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The collassals need more emphasis on helping their race, all of them. Krakens sound good with the purpose you have in mind, but they seem to be more of a destroy all.

As for the sentinel, that's easyily too OP, and I'm the guy who came up with the rook.

As for spamming, that 1 only suggestion stops spamming, but you don't want these guys to be so powerful that the enemy would move all of his units in the opposite direction to avoid them. That's going to boil it all down to a 1 v 1 fight, and it might as well be spam if we can't use any other units.

And as far as the collassals are concerned, if it's a 1 v 1, the sentinel is going to win every time

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 16, 2016 22:19

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Duaneski

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What do you think of these changes?

I lowered defense values for kraken and sentinel.

I lowered number of attacks for salvation but increased its attack power

I reduced GH for sentinel I think

I changed range to 2-4 for sentinel to give it a clear weakness in units that can close in on it.

I changed range of salvation to 1-3 to decrease its threat range.

I made kraken more specialized: increased GL and reduced GH. This makes it fit better what I originally wanted it to do: instantly skewer large swaths of infantry. It can still use its first attack after resurfacing for a biggish hit on a GH

I'm open to more changes, of course. M

* changes in next post

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 16, 2016 22:34

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Duaneski

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apiens
Airship Salvation
Colossal
Cost 1500
GL 10
GH 10
Air 10
Aq 10
Range 1-3
Defense 13
Attacks per turn: 2

Special ability: advanced deployment: marines can be built adjacent to the Salvation.

Adjacent engineers needed to repair damage: 3

The Salvation is immune to 'stun', plague, and UV

The Salvation may sacrifice its attacks to move one extra space this turn.

Khraleans
Kraken
Colossal
Cost: 1500
GL 15
GH 6
Air 6
Aq 10
Range 1-2
Defense 14

Attacks per turn: 5
Special ability: Bury (12 turn Cooldown after resurfacing)

Adjacent infectors required to repair damage point: 2

Kraken is immune to UV

Titans
Sentinel
Colossal
Cost: 1500
GL 20
GH 16
Air 12
Aq 16
Defense 17
Range 2-4
Attacks per turn: 1

Special ability: UV (can be used one time every turn in addition to the sentinel's one attack)

Adjacent assimilators required to repair one damage point: 0

Sentinel is immune to EMP
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Duaneski

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Applied further nerfs to defense values. Took away the max 2 damage rule. Adjusted some attack values upwards (GH and air for salvation), tried to better define the units roles..

Looking at them now, in my opinion:

Salvation could get eaten away at by artillery at range 4-5, and should absolutely be able to be taken down. It is a fun unit though with some neat rules that make sense within the saps.

The Kraken can shred infantry like no ones business, but it can't do much else other than that. I think it's missing something, but not sure what to give it. I want it to help to clear a Titan or saps brick, and I think this would do that. If you could off 3-5 units to open up even more underlings sprouting up, that might be enough to make this unit worthwhile. But I'm torn.

The sentinel I think is in a good place. It's defense is now 2 ticks above the plasma, which I don't believe to be invincible by any means. It still only has one attack, and I again reduced its GH. It still has the every turn UV, which can deal a lot of overall damage each turn of course. Again, I like the 2-4 range.

I hope those of you concerned with balance are happy with these changes, I know I am but I'll be trying to think of something simple and fun for the kraken too
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