only paid undo will work soon

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Mar 21, 2016 23:30

Subject: only paid undo will work soon

amidama

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 17, 2016 22:32

Hakumen

Mar 22, 2016 18:44

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

xavi

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Yes, I confirm that we will remove the free UNDO. Only players using the paid UNDO will be able to benefit from it.

-= The UniWar Team =-

Mar 23, 2016 14:04

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

volf

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My arguments for why this is a terrible decision.

But befire I begin let me say that I have been a loyal supporter of the game for over a year now. I support xavi and I have spent money on this game for the only reason that I like the game a lot and I like the developer even more.

However, I like this so much that I do not want to see it go down the tubes like many games do. So for the game's sake I am making my argument for keeping free undo.

First, and I dont think this one can be disproved, turn redo is a major game changer, especially at higher levels. One of the reasons for this is the random dice rolls. Changing order of attacks can be the difference when matches are really close. What do I think would happen if we see two players of similar level go head to head one with undo and the other without? I would pick the player with undo to win 10 times out of 10. I do NOT see anybody disproving this.

Second, fow would always be in the favor of the player with undo. He can scout but his opponent cant. That is clearly an advantage. Granted its not on every map but certainly on some. Especially in team games.

Speaking of team games this will destroy everything we love about them. Scouting and undo play major major roles in team games. Before team ranked came out and the leaderboard was based of tournies alone, deadlymonk and I were number two so I can speak as an authority. Also our volfpack teams have done very very well and we are number two on there as well. Another point about team games is what if my team mates dont buy undo and I do? Well once again that is still affecting me. Not being able to recover their mistakes will impeed me greatly even though I paid for the undo.

This will also affect new players. We see soooo many iap pay to win games many new players wont give this game a second chance thus limiting growth.

If this goes down I personally will wait and see what happens but I wont buy it right off the bat because I think the game wont last long enough for my money to be worth it...

To xavi: I support you as a dev I just disagree with this decision. Thanks!

Mar 23, 2016 14:36

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Duaneski

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Joined: Nov 27, 2015,
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volf wrote:My arguments for why this is a terrible decision.

But befire I begin let me say that I have been a loyal supporter of the game for over a year now. I support xavi and I have spent money on this game for the only reason that I like the game a lot and I like the developer even more.

However, I like this so much that I do not want to see it go down the tubes like many games do. So for the game's sake I am making my argument for keeping free undo.

First, and I dont think this one can be disproved, turn redo is a major game changer, especially at higher levels. One of the reasons for this is the random dice rolls. Changing order of attacks can be the difference when matches are really close. What do I think would happen if we see two players of similar level go head to head one with undo and the other without? I would pick the player with undo to win 10 times out of 10. I do NOT see anybody disproving this.

Second, fow would always be in the favor of the player with undo. He can scout but his opponent cant. That is clearly an advantage. Granted its not on every map but certainly on some. Especially in team games.

Speaking of team games this will destroy everything we love about them. Scouting and undo play major major roles in team games. Before team ranked came out and the leaderboard was based of tournies alone, deadlymonk and I were number two so I can speak as an authority. Also our volfpack teams have done very very well and we are number two on there as well. Another point about team games is what if my team mates dont buy undo and I do? Well once again that is still affecting me. Not being able to recover their mistakes will impeed me greatly even though I paid for the undo.

This will also affect new players. We see soooo many iap pay to win games many new players wont give this game a second chance thus limiting growth.

If this goes down I personally will wait and see what happens but I wont buy it right off the bat because I think the game wont last long enough for my money to be worth it...

To xavi: I support you as a dev I just disagree with this decision. Thanks!

If the choice is:

No more development of this game

Or

Paid undo only

Which do you choose?

Maybe it isn't a either or situation, but given Xavi's knowledge of the player base I don't think he's making this decision lightly. I think it's important we ensure he is aware of the importance of undo. If he is and this is the decision, Then I personally believe the next best thing is to give players a clear access to unicoins, so they can feel like they're "working towards it." In the meantime they would be able to spend their unicoins on single turn undo's in huge mistakes or 'important games'

There is a lot of potential to make this horse pill easier to swallow. Hopefully we can come up with some ideas because while none of us WANT paid undo, it apparently is a necessary evil.

Mar 23, 2016 15:03

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

volf

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I could be wrong but it seems like there is some revenue for xavi. I assuredly appreciate all the development. Of course I do. Im always excited about new updates! However, I have spent money on this game its not like Im here on a free ride. To pay even more (doubling what I've already paid) just to be on a fair playing field is quite a bummer. I was really looking forward to buying some of the cool new features like colors and flags and other customizations. However, I am now not going to spend another penny until the paid redo is implemented. Then I need to see how that is going to affect the game because I think it will big time. If to keep the game the same requires cutting out the development I am going to be very sad but I would probably choose that. But please do not tell me that I am being the selfish one here who just wants all the free updates and free rides. I wont take that crap, thank you. Xavi will and has agreed I am a very loyal supporter of the game. I am just voicing the opinion of many on uniwar

Mar 23, 2016 15:09

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

volf

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 23, 2016 15:11

Mar 23, 2016 15:18

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Apercent

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I think there is a better solution than paid undo. Undo doesn't sound terrible, but it isn't great either.
Pros
A) more xavi money!
B) people will use undo less often
Cons
A). Gives some an advantage over others
B). Undo is too insignificant for (most) people to really want to buy. Trust me, they weren't even willing to pay .99 for this game
C). You are doing vision updates. If vision goes as low as your saying it will, than this will definitely become a game changer.
D). It makes your fan base mad (for the most part)

Conclusion: there is a better solution out there.

Mar 23, 2016 15:20

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Apercent

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I've got some ideas for undo replacements. But since this is an undo thread, here's what I think you should do; take amidama suggestion and make vision update after the turn is over. It's up to you, and we will still love this game either way it goes.

Mar 23, 2016 15:26

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

amidama

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 17, 2016 22:32

Mar 23, 2016 15:31

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

volf

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That is a good idea and would fix the fow problem I think. I would like to beta test it though! I still stand firm on my other points however.

Mar 23, 2016 15:34

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Duaneski

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volf wrote:I could be wrong but it seems like there is some revenue for xavi. I assuredly appreciate all the development. Of course I do. Im always excited about new updates! However, I have spent money on this game its not like Im here on a free ride. To pay even more (doubling what I've already paid) just to be on a fair playing field is quite a bummer. I was really looking forward to buying some of the cool new features like colors and flags and other customizations. However, I am now not going to spend another penny until the paid redo is implemented. Then I need to see how that is going to affect the game because I think it will big time. If to keep the game the same requires cutting out the development I am going to be very sad but I would probably choose that. But please do not tell me that I am being the selfish one here who just wants all the free updates and free rides. I wont take that crap, thank you. Xavi will and has agreed I am a very loyal supporter of the game. I am just voicing the opinion of many on uniwar

I hope that isn't what you got out of my reply ... Cause that's not at all what I am saying.

There are HUGE gaps in financial backgrounds from the players here. Whether one person has paid $15 or $1 isn't so much relevant as to how much they've actually committed to the game. That $1 could be so much more meaningful to that person than the 15 from the other.

With that in mind I just really want some way for the "poorer" gamer to be able to accrue unicoins over time...

I also get that from a business perspective this game clearly isn't profitable enough to the development team, again regardless of individual contributions. You and I are probably on the upper side of that curve, which is great, but two people can't support development.

We differ in that I would rather deal with the turn redo and see continued development. IF this game is able to really catch on as it should, I can see that turn redo going away WOULD happen as a paid feature. If there are millions of people playing instead of 100s or thousands. Man. Much different financial world.

And in my opinion this game has the potential to be played by millions. It's a damn crime it isn't already.

So I will support paid undo to continue development until this game gets where it should be.

That's how I'm looking at it

Mar 23, 2016 15:41

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Duaneski

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amidama wrote:

Apercent wrote:I've got some ideas for undo replacements. But since this is an undo thread, here's what I think you should do; take amidama suggestion and make vision update after the turn is over. It's up to you, and we will still love this game either way it goes.

yaaay! somebody (i mean from players) actually have read my suggestion! im impressed

I like this idea as well

Might be a pain to program but if engineer type units could move and update vision and nothing else could til the end of the turn, that could be a neat thing to add to them. Or a dedicated scouting unit. Either way if mobility is low you're max gaining 1-2 hexes of visibility which of course isn't as game breaking as being able to see the whole map every turn as it currently is

Mar 23, 2016 15:47

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

amidama

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 17, 2016 22:33

Hakumen

Mar 24, 2016 06:36

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

StarryBlink

Messages: 184,
Joined: Jan 04, 2012,
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I support removing an unofficial undo.
Make the game fair for all players. Whether they know this forum exist or not.
And it's a realistic way to continually recruit money for the game development.

But the abuse of undo to see behind fog of war is the real thing today.

And with your plan to further reduce visions acros all units,
that will increase an advantage for players who abuse undo for a vision.

I really don't want this beautiful game Uniwar fall into another pay-to-win game.

So my suggestion is :
* An undo button for each game slot has a cooldown time somewhere between 5 to 10 turns. *

Please consider this. Should make players only press the undo button when they find very important reasons to do.

Bottom line :
- Never let this game become an another pay-to-win game. This set Uniwar apart form thousands of game in the app store.
- Make the undo button exist for correct player's mistake only. Not for any other abused usages.

Mar 24, 2016 12:06

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Apercent

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Joined: Sep 08, 2015,
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I like the engineer idea. Works really well because engineers can't move far enough to truly be abused.

The 5-10 cooldown is simpler to implement, but at the same time, vision can still be abused occasionally. I think it's a good solution, but I'm not sure if it'd work.

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