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Team match problem with new rules
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revZloco

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Joined: Jun 11, 2009,
Location: St. Louis, MO USA
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revZloco

Messages: 14,
Joined: Jun 11, 2009,
Location: St. Louis, MO USA
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Okay, so this may not be the right place to post this, but oh well... At first the new rule about not "kicking" a player right away seemed very appealing, but now i'm having second thoughts...

I've really started playing more and more team matches, I think they are a lot of fun – being able to talk strategy with someone you've never met, then playing them out as a team.

However, team matches become near automatic losses and certainly no fun, when your teammate decides to bail right after the game starts. Here's why: Many maps require quick and decisive movement early in the game in order to balance the powers (or gain the upper hand), so what happens if your teammate is absent the 1st round, you can't do their work for them and you can't kick them to give yourself a chance. But say you let it slide, see how it plays out. Then they bail on round 2 as well, now you are in trouble in the game, you may have lost any edge and you are probably playing from behind. But you stay in (because you know you can always surrender before round three and not be penalized)...

Wrong. This scenario I've been describing actually happened, round three came around and sure enough my teammate didn't show up, so I surrendered. 2 days later I get the email that I lost the match, -21 points.

Now, I thought after 3 consecutive missed rounds, a player is kicked... Is that not the case?
5200

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5200

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I hate "skip turns." It sounded like a pretty good idea but it's harmed the game more than it's helped.

It makes it so you have to wait 3x as long to kick someone who drops out because they're losing. That, or surrender yourself. This happens A LOT.

Plus the multiplayer problem as described here.

This is a cheap game with a lot of people who sign up to look around and disappear. The regular players need a way to quickly clear out the riff-raff who start games they don't intend to play, or who play a day or two and then lose interest.

It would be one thing if you automatically lost if you were over the time limit but you're not. In short games your opponent is under no obligation to kick you when the time runs out, so if it's a game between respectable players the time limit doesn't really matter.

I hope you guys consider changing it back and soon. At least make "kick" and "skip" the choice of the player who's actually playing, and not force them to clean up the mess of the guy who may or may not be coming back.
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Gargoyle

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Location: Celebration, FL
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Gargoyle

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Maybe it would work better if it were Skip - Kick, instead of Skip - Skip - Kick?
Anonymous

Anonymous
Skip is really annoying when someone just deserts the game once they are losing. Especially in a three day game! I agree you should only get one skip, if that.
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kralux

Messages: 223,
Joined: Jun 01, 2009,
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kralux

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Do you think it would solve the issue to add a player rating (like on Ebay) that would indicate whether players are trustworthy?
It would be based on the percentage of match abandonment and surrender in the first 3 rounds.
Based on that percentage, people would either get a gold, silver, or bronze star or a red ! in the case they have dropped from too many matches...
Anonymous

Anonymous
why even have a 3 round grace period? just make it so that if you surrender within the first 3 rounds, you get a mandatory x amount of points deducted. if everyone on a team surrenders within 3 rounds, then everyone on that team loses x points. the winning team would not gain if the game is won within 3 rounds. so only those who get kicked or surrender early have something to lose.

ebay sucks. don't ever try to emulate them.
dragoon

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dragoon

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1, Surrender should be allowed without loss of points before you make your first move. There are too many reasons why this is so to list but most involve the whole matching up system as well as the random games system. You should be allowed to back out a game you don't want to play "for free" before you make your first move.

Surrender is always better than abandonment. Abandoning games leaves the other player screwed because they don't know if you're coming back or what. At least surrender lets you move on.


2, I think skip turn has to go. It's maddening when you know someones not coming back and yet you have to skip their turn and keep waiting. Also even if that player comes back, on most maps they're screwed anyway from missing a turn, so it's not like you're doing them any favors by giving them a second chance.


3, I think an ebay like rating system would not work because its too easy to abuse if you have a grudge or want to be a troll. Making friends is the way to go.

4, I agree that anonymous accounts need to go as well. It's a burden on the community and its really unfair to the core players to have to weed them out. I have yet to have a positive encounter with one and i bought this game the day it came out.

Multiple accounts should be allowed for various reasons including sometimes you just want to start over with a new name but there needs to be a way to block multiple players on the same device from playing in the same game.
Anonymous

Anonymous
anonymous accounts should not be able to play rated games.

people who make at least one move and surrender/abandon before round 4 should lose 25 pts regardless of their opponent's rating. really deter early quitting. make it so painful to quit early that they'll think twice before joining a game that they have no intention of playing if they're not winning within 3 rounds.
5200

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5200

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I agree anonymous shouldn't be able to play rated games. If they should be allowed at all.

However I don't think the vast majority of dropouts could give less of a @#$ about ratings. They aren't the ones who are sticking around to try to climb the ladder, they're the ones who are just sightseeing and trying out the game and then disappearing never to return. Almost every dropout I get is from an anonymous person or from a name I never see again.

I'm not against penalizing dropouts but I doubt it will make much difference. Mostly I want it to be painless to clear the games they dropped out of (as in, get rid of Skip Turn..!)
Anonymous

Anonymous
even high ranked players drop out of games within 3 rounds if they're not "winning". mercury map is a good example. yellow guy capping a base gets killed by red's marauder and team 1 surrenders in the 3rd round and lose no points.

basically knowing you can't win by the 4th round should not exempt you from losing points by surrendering early. in fact you should lose more points than normal as a bigger penalty.
Anonymous

Anonymous
I'm wondering if someone from the dev team can explain why you get 4 rounds to drop out? It seems like 1 would be fine (before you move) but I can't see a reason why you'd need 4.

However. I don't think you should get penalized more as punishment for dropping out early. Dropping out and getting a dud game over with is better than forcing everyone to drag it out. Especially with the horrible skip turns feature we now have getting rid of a player who refuses to move is much worse than having them just say I quit.

Make them lose the points they would have for losing anyway, sure. Additional penalties, no.
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kralux

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kralux

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Currently, one can drop out during the first three rounds without penalty.
This was done to prevent people creating unbalanced matches and take advantage of another player and earn points that way. It sometimes takes a few turns to realize that one has been abused, hence the 3 turns.

Now that we are making all the maps more even as much as possible, we may be able to reduce the three turns to one or two if there is enough popular demand for this.

Before starting a multiplayer match, make sure to gauge your opponents and that they have played many matches before and are a reliable player, otherwise you may just want to kick them out of that game and get someone else to join in.
I do believe that a system that indicates the quality of a player would be worth it.

Maybe we should change the system such that a player could be skipped up to twice in a row BUT could also be kicked at any time if the game is a 1 day or longer game. So that in those long games, there is no skip option... Let us know what you think.
dragoon

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dragoon

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IMO two player games should never have "Skip Turn". There's no need. If the opponent wants to give you another chance they can just wait it out and see if you come back. Kick player was a lot more useful.

Multiplayer games are different and I don't play them enough to say but I think they should have the skip turn feature as an option and kick for when you know they're not returning. I usually only play 2 player so I won't say what "should" be done on multi. But multi and 2 player are very different ways to play so I don't see why you can't accomodate that.

BTW I really don't like the idea of a system to rate player quality. The main thing IMO is you don't want new players to be discriminated against. It's already a pretty small community where it's not difficult to build up a friends list and to recognize the same player names over and over. Maybe if the game becomes huge the system would make sense but as it is you dont want to divide the players up. It's a cheap casual game (no offense but that's the nature of the platform compared to a PC game for example) and you have a lot of turnover with people coming and going. It's better to think of ways to make them stay so we have a large pool of players than to set up an elite group of hardcore players who only play each other (which is easy enough for them to do without your help anyway)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 10, 2009 13:31

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revZloco

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revZloco

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Once upon a time, someone threw out the idea of making it optional. Someone misses their turn, you can either skip them or kick them. That way, if you believed a player joined, but bailed never to return, you kick them right away, if its the middle of the game and someone misses, you might want to give them the courtesy of a skip round.

I can see both points of view on the rating idea. But the reality is that if someone catches a bad rating, they can always restart their account with a clean slate – in other words, I think a rating system could be manipulated, abused and circumvented too easily for it to be effective.
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Gargoyle

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Location: Celebration, FL
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Gargoyle

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I agree about the rating system - I'm not sure it's needed. As I said before, between my Friends list, my Friends' Friends lists, and the people I see offering opinions on this forum, I think I've got a pool of players I trust to last me for the next year...
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