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New Units and why IAP can/will be a bad idea!...
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Newtomic

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Newtomic

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Hi everyone... I'm relatively new in the game and also here in the forums, but I want to discuss this sort-off sensitive subject...

I heard about this subject the General Chat's (English/Portuguese) that the future new units to be implemented in the game will be 'In-App-Purchases' (IAP)... I understand that the game needs income to survive and to maintain the servers and everything else, but I'm strongly opposed to this decision if it will be the real and final one, and please let me explain my point of view:
 • 1- I'm following this industry (the Video-Games industry) with some passion for many years now and I have seen many great games "die" from a simple single bad decision and new units behind a paywall is a very, VERY bad decision IMHO.
 • 2- Why? Let's face it unless the new units are only merely alternative-sprite-skins to the already present units in game in some situation(s) the new units will have some advantage(s) and on that point the game will be Pay-To-Win (P2W), in some degree the present undo system (unlimited) already is a bit P2W and nobody with some experience in the game can deny that having unlimited undo makes a hole-lot of a difference, off course there is some ideas to try to make that more fair but with the present random (rng) and rolls system I believe that from a two even players the one without the unlimited undo will 90% or more of the times loose even if he uses the "free" undo.
 • 3- The problem with IAP that affect in some way the gameplay and for extension the players that have those IAPs is that it will, and IMO rightly so, be viewed like a P2W system and in a game like UniWar where in many situations a single move/attack/decision can change the tide of a game that's a huge problem a really big one.
 • 4- The game is very fun and interesting to anyone that likes strategy per turns and the friendly and easy to pick and start playing vibe in the game is a huge plus and on top of that the great complexity that we discover very briefly after ending the single campaign and start playing online-multi-player is really the best of the best thing.
 • 5- But I'm a little bit worried that the IAP for the new unit's will terminate this in a very bad way, it can be a so disastrous move that every new member that the game as gained with the pass to the free game can disappear as fast or even faster than the rate that the game gain those members until now.

Continue...

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Newtomic

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Newtomic

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 • 6- If the game starts to gain a bad rate because of that and don't get me wrong gain thrust from the community it's not always an easy thing, but after you lose that thrust gain-it again can be near-impossible to accomplish, so I say don't alienate your community and don't listen only the "elite" the elite are a very good thing to this niche games, but they are not enough to maintain the interest in playing the game unless they are a couple thousand or more and I sincerely don't believe there is that many in UniWar. Yes for the elite everything seems ok and passable but for the majority of the community P2W isn't acceptable.
 • 7- I have some ideas and one of them is this;... why not make the game not free but and extended demo without limits, and if you choose this way make it VERY clear in the Stores that the game is not free nor full and then make a stater pack for 5~7 bucks/euro so the ones that want can purchase every IAP that affects gameplay in that pack, like unlimited undo and the every IAP units in that pack, and continue to make the other things like more slots to play/archive and finished games, even the tokens for the maps are ok but IMO it need a serious change in the value or at least a change in the system because the way it is now it's just ridiculous, just think about a game like Track Mania and now imagine that the people making tracks have to pay between ~0.22€ or ~0.16€ per token to upload the track and if they change anything after they play one time on that track they have to spend another token it's just ridiculous sorry but it is, I'm not saying that it should be free but make it like 0.01€ per token or even 0.01€ per 10 tokens, something like that... (sory for the map token subject thing going for so long).

Anyway I'm already prepared to be bombarded like in the chat but keep in your minds if I didn't care for this game was I loosing this kind of time writing in the chat/forum? Think about-it.

PS: I'm sure there is something I miss to say but this is an ongoing subject right...

PSS: you may ask why I didn't buy anything in the game, well I don't think it's right to have to pay at least 11€ so I can have enough UniCoins to purchase unlimited undo, for me that kind of money for a feature that I think should not be an IAP it's just insane! :-/

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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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There remains access to a free undo, by switching in between accounts.

So I want to put that out there.

As far as you not spending money on undo - that's fine. I am not gonna say you're right or wrong for purchases you do or don't make. But There doesn't seem to be any reason there why you wouldn't buy more game slots heheh.

As for the bulk of your post. I don't necessarily disagree.

But I think what we have to wonder is: what is the expected player base for this game?

I mean I wish it was like 100,000. In which case if each player spends a dollar we are golden.

What if the player base is closer to 1000 though?

If Xavi gives away almost all of his hard work for $5-7 as you put it - and this is months and months / a year's worth of work? Then he gets 5000-7000 for the years work?

So. I wouldn't expect Xavi to live on this amount of money. Or anyone.

So I think that's the problem with your proposed system. Or your price points. XAvi basically needs the 'elite' to spend on this game big time to support his work. While also having a model that promotes new players coming in. It isn't gonna be easy. And I really don't know what the answer is. But I don't know if it's as simple as 'don't sell the new units as IAP' ...
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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Yea so.

Players X avg cash spent = yearly income

1000 X 10 = 10,000

1000 X 25 = 25,000

1000 X 40 = 40,000

So double those if you think we have 2000 players. I'm not sure what the real amount of active players is. given there are usually 300-400 online, I would guess around 2500 players. Not sure.

Above I mimicked you and said 'elite players' .. I prefer the term dedicated players. I think that's who needs to be able to feed Xavi money ideally.

And honestly, for me if I compare Uniwar to say: dark souls 3. I've played DS3 for 60 hours for $60.... How many hours have I played Uniwar? 500? I have no idea. A fucking lot. That's how many. Xavi has earned my money with this fantastic product. I know a lot of other dedicated people must feel similarly.

So, with those things in mind. I think your idea is a fine one. But I think your price point is too low. I understand and sympathize with your reservations. But at the same time, I would much rather pay through the nose for some new units and have continued development than have Xavi try to give everyone his hard work and end up not developing any more after that due to lack of time / money.

I think that's all I've got. Thank you again for your thoughtful post
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simsverd

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simsverd

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Its an interesting discussion ofc.

Your main point is that you rather see a free and a pro version - where the pro version cost 5 dollars... that model have been tried and it does not work well enough. You got to remember the scale here ... Duaneski is right- this types of games are very niche.

Its very hard to find the right balance point of where free ends and payment start. I agree that the map tokens are a bad IAP... but they where never made to make money - they where made to prevent map-spam wich was an issue earlier

And another thing you have not taken into consideration is that there will be an achievement/reward system in place before the new units come - a means for players to earn unicoins for free so they can buy the new units or other stuff in the shop. This will ofc be a slower process than buying them, but there has to be an incentive to support the game.

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legia

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legia

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When you will play random game and you didn't bought new units and your opponent bought all new units then in that game you will also play with new units.
That's not a Pay to Win.
The solution is that new units will bring new tactical aspect to the game.

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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  legia wrote:When you will play random game and you didn't bought new units and your opponent bought all new units then in that game you will also play with new units.
That's not a Pay to Win.
The solution is that new units will bring new tactical aspect to the game.


If that's true that'd be great.

Is that definitely the case? I believe last I had read in chat it was suggested this would not be the case
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simsverd

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simsverd

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No. that is changed. Only player wich own the units will play with them.

Exception is tourneys where the tourney rules decide if both play with them or not

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LkASr

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LkASr

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man, if I wish I have a boatload of money, I'd fund this game with it to continue

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drumstep

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Everyone brings up some good points, and it really is a difficult problem. One thing I haven't seen addressed anywhere is how the new units are going to be sold, whether individually or as a package. Personally i think the best option would be to have three different ways of buying the new units. The first is buying each unit individually, and I imagine this at about $2.50 each. Then we could have a "race bundle" that includes all the new units in a specific race, and I think $6.00 sounds like a fair price for that. Finally, there could be the "all unit" bundle which as the name suggests includes all new units for every race, which I could see going for $15.00. These prices are all based off of there being three new units per race, which as far as I know is still the planned amount.

I've decided on these three buying options for a couple of reasons.
1) The individual buying option keeps players from feeling coerced into buying a very situational unit in order to get a more useful unit. Prime example being a new aquatic unit, because let's be honest most maps make very little use of them.
2) The race bundle gives players the option to get all the units of their favorite race at a slightly lower price than buying each individually. I really feel like this is the MOST IMPORTANT buying option to have, because you can (and many players do) play UniWar using only one race. The $6.00 price fits right into the 5-7 dollar price range suggested for the "pro version" in the original post and still provides a full game experience by letting players play with all available resources in a game (as long as they're willing to play as one race).
3) The all unit bundle is for the most devoted players who have been playing the game for a while and have been eagerly waiting for new units. $15.00 again gives this bundle a small discount over buying each of the race packs, although I could see $16.00 as a reasonable price as well.

Next post will have some other ideas to encourage players to actually buy the new units.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Sep 03, 2016 16:47

drumstep

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I can think of two ways to help promote the new units, and the best part is they can both be implemented together. The first is to make all units available for free in the offline mode, allowing players to mess around with them against the bots or in the hotseat against themselves or another player and get a general idea of their usefulness before committing to a purchase. This is limited of course by the fact that the bots are not very good players, and hotseat requires another person to get the full benefit.
This leads to my second suggestion, a free activatable trial for each of the race packs. Once activated, this will give you access to the new units in a specific race for a certain number of online games. I haven't decided on an exact number yet, but I think 5 is a reasonable starting point, and it certainly shouldn't be more than 10. This allows all players to try the new units in an actual game against another person. It should also be clearly recommended that a player should first try the new units in offline mode to get a feel for the new units before attempting to use them online, as the trial is limited.
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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Drumstep - or as Siri prefers, drumstick- ... Some great ideas.

I agree 100% on your ideas for how units should be sold. I think that makes perfect sense. And you're right that that addresses what ppl may feel about races / specific units. So that's sweet. The exact price points will be up to Xavi ofc but I like the idea for bundles by race and altogether!

I also like the trial idea... But I dont think the units should be free to offline players. I think this game has a lot of offline players who aren't touched by the IAP currently. Giving them units means they still aren't. I don't think that's a good business model so I would say: put the new units into specific campaign missions. So anyone can experience them only in those missions (or tournaments, or during the online trial) before using them.

That's just one Uniwarriors opinion of course

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Lunatyk

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Lunatyk

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I understand the need of generating revenues, and I was 100% agreed with the ads.
But I'd like to know if IAP units won't affect balance? Because after all, all this game is about is balance. If it gets to the situation where someone who has the units will ALWAYS win against someone who don't have the units, won't there be a big gap in the game?
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StarryBlink

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StarryBlink

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I spent 5 dollars and already playing this game for 5 years. So it's no problem at all for me buying new units.

But the only thing I worry about is : how to allow newcomers try Uniwar in a fair game against another human online?

Unless they're absolutely craps, new units will definitely bring an advantage to players who have them someway.
When newcomers lose because they don't have those units. And they're still too new for Uniwar to buy an extra unit pack.
Then they might think : Well, this game is unfair. Let's find another game.

My suggested solution is : make new units enable only when players has score above 1700.

You will able to buy it after your score are above 1700. And you have to buy it only once.
But if your score drop below 1700, the extra unit pack will become disabled.
After you come back above 1700, it become enabled again. You don't have to buy it a second time.

This ensure newcomers with score around 1500-1700 will alway play a fair game against other players in their rank.
And after they play this game for a while and their score rise above 1700.
It's a good time for them to decide whether they want to be serious in Uniwar or not.
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Lunatyk

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Lunatyk

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  StarryBlink wrote:I spent 5 dollars and already playing this game for 5 years. So it's no problem at all for me buying new units.

But the only thing I worry about is : how to allow newcomers try Uniwar in a fair game against another human online?

Unless they're absolutely craps, new units will definitely bring an advantage to players who have them someway.
When newcomers lose because they don't have those units. And they're still too new for Uniwar to buy an extra unit pack.
Then they might think : Well, this game is unfair. Let's find another game.

My suggested solution is : make new units enable only when players has score above 1700.

You will able to buy it after your score are above 1700. And you have to buy it only once.
But if your score drop below 1700, the extra unit pack will become disabled.
After you come back above 1700, it become enabled again. You don't have to buy it a second time.

This ensure newcomers with score around 1500-1700 will alway play a fair game against other players in their rank.
And after they play this game for a while and their score rise above 1700.
It's a good time for them to decide whether they want to be serious in Uniwar or not.


I like this idea !
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