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Pay to win? Uniwars new business model
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mistercreepy

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mistercreepy

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Hi all! So there has been a ton of discussion on this topic the last few months, and now that the first new units are close to being active the new business model is about to come into effect. This thread is a place to discuss this new business model.

How can the developers ensure that Uniwar continues on as a favorite app while still making money from it? Thus far purchases have been primarily cosmetic. How can Uniwar be financially viable without being pay to win?

I personally think that these new units constitute Uniwar 2. You should never be in a game where you face these new units without having access to them yourself. It's far too demoralizing to lose to something you can't build yourself. This is not a practical suggestion but rather a guiding principle.

There have been other thoughts on this in the global chat. Hope we can add them here.
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SCV

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SCV

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I totally agree with all of that
wolkenwand

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wolkenwand

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There are post in other thread that suggest that if a player have new units, then the other players will also gain access to the unit even if he not paid for it before. I think its great idea. I mostly play offline, but i bought some coins for support the developer. Because the nature of the game is about skill (not like other strategy rpg game in playstore where level system is exist, in those game you know you will lose when facing high level player. In uniwar if you know how to play you can make new account and outright face all player, no need to level up ), If there are any gameplay IAP it should not make paid player have advantage. just my 2 cents
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Michaelrn

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Michaelrn

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I love Uniwar and I'm really excited with the new tiles and the upcoming new units (although they are still too powerful and unbalanced with their current status).

I gladly pay for new units, in fact I have already bought them on the pre-purchase. BUT I don't want to play against someone who doesn’t have them and get and unfair advantage against him/her. In that case I would just abstain myself from using those units to keep a fair play (but I would be sad because I would not be using the units).

I support the idea to allow new units to be used in a game as long as any of the players have bought them. I would prefer a thousand times to play against someone who have access to the same units that I have; I don't care if he/she have paid for them or not, I like to play in conditions of equality. I believe most of the people here think the same way.
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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Yeah we had a big discussion thread about this a while back, a lot of the same things being said.

I was also in favor of an 'expansion' mode or something where players can only use units if the other player has them.

I think maybe to encourage players to buy the units it might make sense:

- when a game is started where only 1/2 players has the units, initiate a random event and only 50% of the time allow the new units to be used. This way not every game has the new units, so people who want to play with them more must still buy them instead of just planning on getting matched against people buying them. (To clarify: half the time both players can use the units. Half the time, neither can)

- as a community, I hope that regardless of something like this being formally implemented, that people wouldn't use the new units in games where their opponents don't have them... and hopefully people wouldn't lie hah. But that's my plan until if / when something is formally put in place to keep that balance: -ask at the start: do you have new units? If not I won't use mine. I think this could become a part of Uniwar etiquette.

I'm glad you guys are passionate, but at the end of the day every discussion regarding this content needs to be framed in this question: is the way you're proposing things to be done financially viable for this game? Try to be realistic, and keep in mind that Xavi doesn't want to lose one player, AND NO ONE wants pay to win OR for someone to have to decide between a basic need and a Uniwar unit.

But the game needs to make money somehow!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 11, 2016 02:02

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Michaelrn

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Michaelrn

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  Duaneski wrote:Yeah we had a big discussion thread about this a while back, a lot of the same things being said.

I was also in favor of an 'expansion' mode or something where players can only use units if the other player has them.

I think maybe to encourage players to buy the units it might make sense:

- when a game is started where only 1/2 players has the units, initiate a random event and only 50% of the time allow the new units to be used. This way not every game has the new units, so people who want to play with them more must still buy them instead of just planning on getting matched against people buying them. (To clarify: half the time both players can use the units. Half the time, neither can)

- as a community, I hope that regardless of something like this being formally implemented, that people wouldn't use the new units in games where their opponents don't have them... and hopefully people wouldn't lie hah. But that's my plan until if / when something is formally put in place to keep that balance: -ask at the start: do you have new units? If not I won't use mine. I think this could become a part of Uniwar etiquette.

I'm glad you guys are passionate, but at the end of the day every discussion regarding this content needs to be framed in this question: is the way you're proposing things to be done financially viable for this game? Try to be realistic, and keep in mind that Xavi doesn't want to lose one player, AND NO ONE wants pay to win OR for someone to have to decide between a basic need and a Uniwar unit.

But the game needs to make money somehow!


You've got a point, the developers really need to make money, I also don't expect they work for free.

But, at least in my opinion, a pay to win feature like that can ward off players (potential supporters). There are many games that are pay to win, but one of the major aspects of Uniwar is that it isn't (at least yet). If this is one major aspect of Uniwar, then I think this is one of the reason that people who play uniwar chose to play it.

I also think that most of the players, if they really like the game, will eventually buy the units to have a greater gaming experience.

But this is just my opinion so I may be wrong. All I hope is that Uniwar keeps getting better and having an ever growing community and that the players support it.
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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What do you think?

Instead of when only 1/2 players has the units, instead of both getting to use units, neither do?

I feel like part of the sticking point for the devs may have been: not wanting the content to basically be given out for free by being able to piggyback other players ...

Or maybe it would be good to have these units not be usable in unranked / custom games... so there's that making people want to buy the units?
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Michaelrn

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Michaelrn

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I don't like the idea that a player isn't allowed to use a unit that he/she have purchased.

What about that first suggestion (both players using units even if one have not purchased) improved a little? Players that have purchased new units have priority to be matched among themselves in random games.
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Michaelrn

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Michaelrn

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  Duaneski wrote:What do you think?

Instead of when only 1/2 players has the units, instead of both getting to use units, neither do?

I feel like part of the sticking point for the devs may have been: not wanting the content to basically be given out for free by being able to piggyback other players ...

Or maybe it would be good to have these units not be usable in unranked / custom games... so there's that making people want to buy the units?


And maybe also don't allow to use units not purchased in unranked games, as you suggested. It will not affect the rank, so it's not so unfair anyway
mistercreepy

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mistercreepy

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I think a great point mentioned in the chat was that it would be so demoralizing as a total newbie to get beaten by someone who has units you cannot build. Especially if as some of us suspect these new units are coming out op.

Duaneski I also feel that it's not fair to not let players who have bought the units use them. That would be a feels bad.

What if there is another toggle you can set in your preferences for all games - new units on or off? That would put the decision in the hands of the players. If you allow new units and you don't have them, that's on you. To be honest I am going to definitely miss original Uniwar and I'm sure there will be times that I'll want to run it back. This could be a toggle in all games, rated or non - new units on or off. If new units are toggled on and you don't have them, you can't build them.

Question - can it be coded that way? I don't know.

There could be a new ladder for Uniwar 2.0, aka new units. Just like many people are loving the challenge of the new team ladders and jockeying for position, a new ladder would be really cool to watch shake out.

Then for tournaments, just make the new unit toggle clear.

Where is the downside to this? It's transparent and puts all agency in the hands of the individual player. Yet each player will surely want to test themselves against the new units. Please speak up and show me what I'm missing. Is this going to result in fewer players buying the new units?
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SCV

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SCV

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  Duaneski wrote:What do you think?

Instead of when only 1/2 players has the units, instead of both getting to use units, neither do?

I feel like part of the sticking point for the devs may have been: not wanting the content to basically be given out for free by being able to piggyback other players ...

Or maybe it would be good to have these units not be usable in unranked / custom games... so there's that making people want to buy the units?

Why would anyone buy something that can only be used in the rare occurrence that the other player bought it to? Many games have piggybacking in their expansions (sc2), and works out fine. People still buy the new units.
Kohtar

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Kohtar

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I already told before what I think: I think that new units should be available if either player has them. Players who didn't buy them will not have them all the time, so they will still have an incentive to buy them.

I also think that giving free unicorns was a big mistake because fewer players will buy unicoins. New units should be available when only one player has them otherwise you kill balance and fun, but you should need real money to buy them, because the dev team has to eat.
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  SCV wrote:
  Duaneski wrote:What do you think?

Instead of when only 1/2 players has the units, instead of both getting to use units, neither do?

I feel like part of the sticking point for the devs may have been: not wanting the content to basically be given out for free by being able to piggyback other players ...

Or maybe it would be good to have these units not be usable in unranked / custom games... so there's that making people want to buy the units?

Why would anyone buy something that can only be used in the rare occurrence that the other player bought it to? Many games have piggybacking in their expansions (sc2), and works out fine. People still buy the new units.


Unmmm well I am gonna buy the units and I am proposing it. So, clearly I am OK with the idea.

I have NFI what other people are okay with some of you seem pretty "me-centric"
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  mistercreepy wrote:I think a great point mentioned in the chat was that it would be so demoralizing as a total newbie to get beaten by someone who has units you cannot build. Especially if as some of us suspect these new units are coming out op.

Duaneski I also feel that it's not fair to not let players who have bought the units use them. That would be a feels bad.

What if there is another toggle you can set in your preferences for all games - new units on or off? That would put the decision in the hands of the players. If you allow new units and you don't have them, that's on you. To be honest I am going to definitely miss original Uniwar and I'm sure there will be times that I'll want to run it back. This could be a toggle in all games, rated or non - new units on or off. If new units are toggled on and you don't have them, you can't build them.

Question - can it be coded that way? I don't know.

There could be a new ladder for Uniwar 2.0, aka new units. Just like many people are loving the challenge of the new team ladders and jockeying for position, a new ladder would be really cool to watch shake out.

Then for tournaments, just make the new unit toggle clear.

Where is the downside to this? It's transparent and puts all agency in the hands of the individual player. Yet each player will surely want to test themselves against the new units. Please speak up and show me what I'm missing. Is this going to result in fewer players buying the new units?


I think that last question is at the crux of why things aren't being implemented that way. A toggle could work IMO, as well. Like I said I plan on just asking.

Rewarding unicoins I think was a great idea with a burgeoning store. There are so many things in there that are quality buys. And over the course of a month people will be able to unlock these features for free. (Choosing what's most important to them)

Also, to be competitive people don't have to unlock ALL the new units at once , just choose what race they're gonna play a while, if they don't want to pay to unlock units....

So people quote the entire price when that isn't necessarily gonna be required.

I'm glad the new units balance is being looked at with the armor piercing idea. That should help to balance the units nicely.
esmaperdut

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esmaperdut

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I think that the question about pay-to-win in the subject has already been addressed by the developers...
They have removed the screenshoot in the playstore (Android) that used to advertise that this was not a pay-to-win game.
As a player since 2011 that has spend 12€ on it, I am so sad to see THE game end like this.
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