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;( Tank busters busts my strategy. Now what?
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WormDog

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WormDog

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I have been playing for over a year. My score is 2214. I know what I am doing with this game.
However, the tank buster units seem to throw everything in un-fun chaos. How is my Titan army supposed to defend itself now?
No, I do not quite have the cash to purchase all three new buster units. Just two of them.
I thought Uniwar was about a well balanced chess like game where once you figure out the nuances you can do well. You know, STRATEGY.
Now all that is out the window.
I was in the midst of a game where I was hanging on by well placed line of plasma tanks.
Well, no more. Here they come. Boom! There is no adequate response. I suppose I have to spend my coins on the Guardian unit to even have a chance in that one.
But then what about my other games?
So you need both skill AND cash to win a tournament game now?
So folk really just thought that Uniwar needed these units? That using heavies to defend your army led to unfun games? Wow.
I quite liked the balance. Use heavies for defense, and then artillery to bust things up. With a LOT of strategy and good moves in there as well mind you.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at Feb 08, 2017 03:02

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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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Tournament games specifically allow all players to build all the same units.

As for figuring out how to use the units, aaaand, the game being chess like..... well. I think it's gonna take some time to figure out how maps should be designed, what a balanced map will look like, and what and where to build unit wise....

I do feel for your plight in general though. BUT wanted to post that specifically in tourneys you CAN build the units
Zardecil

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Zardecil

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There will be an option in a few days to watch an ad to build a new unit. In tournaments all units can be used without any coins or ads.
Ilmes

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Ilmes

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Try to get this question.

Why in the tournament all have access to the new units?
The answer is "Why else would unequal".

UniWar right now the is an uneven game.
UniWar right now the is an unequal game.
UniWar right now the is a wrong game.

Ettore

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 08, 2017 13:30

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LkASr

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LkASr

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  Ilmes wrote:
Try to get this question.

Why in the tournament all have access to the new units?
La risposta è "Perché altrimenti sarebbe unequal".

UniWar right now the is an uneven game.
UniWar right now the is an unequal game.
UniWar right now the is a wrong game.

Ettore


Please quit the complaints. They're not as broken as you'd think it is. The units are to be as balanced as possible.

Bopper only has the attack range of 3
Borfly can't attack after move
Guardian is expensive and can't repair

if you get to use those shortcomings, you're gonna be fine

Never surrender when you still have the chance.
"I have achieved navel superiority" -myself 2017
All the good stuff [WoT Generals Beta Tester, Uniwar Beta Tester, Vainglory Hero Suggestions List Contributor]
Come look at my profile for more info
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WormDog

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WormDog

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I'm sure I will adapt to the new Uniwar.
I think I am just shocked because I really liked the old Uniwar.
There can be no doubt that these units have altered the game quite significantly.
It is no longer the same game.

Problem #1: Someone now can legitimately say they lost not because of inferior strategy but because they couldn't afford too. This moves Uniwar away from being chess like to more Video game like.

Problem #2: It took centuries for the game of chess to evolve into what we see today. It had more pieces and more complexity until it was finally streamlined to be "just right" as you see it now.
Likewise Uniwar is evolving. But new units and complexity does not necessarily make for a better strategic game.
Is the overall game experience truly better with these units included? I can clearly say yes for the other units in the canon. Evidenced by the immense popularity of Uniwar today.
First impression right now is the tank buster is like a cheap artillery unit. Which affects the value of the normal artillery units.

Proposal:
1. Permit the tank buster units only if all players have access or perhaps don't even allow the game unless all players have access.
2. Permit the tank buster units only if a certain terrain feature is available on the map.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at Feb 08, 2017 16:26

Ilmes

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Ilmes

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> Bopper only has the attack range of 3
> Borfly can't attack after move
> Guardian is expensive and can't repair

oh yes, if all players in a match have the new unit I can be okay with you that the units are well balanced.

But if in a match I can use the new units and you do not, there's no doubt that I have a strategic advantage.

Ettore

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Feb 08, 2017 13:31

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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  WormDog wrote:I'm sure I will adapt to the new Uniwar.
I think I am just shocked because I really liked the old Uniwar.
There can be no doubt that these units have altered the game quite significantly.
It is no longer the same game.

Problem #1: Someone now can legitimately say they lost not because of inferior strategy but because they couldn't afford too. This moves Uniwar away from being chess like to more Video game like.

Problem #2: It took centuries for the game of chess to evolve into what we see today. It had more pieces and more complexity until it was finally streamlined to be "just right" as you see it now.
Likewise Uniwar is evolving. But new units and complexity does not necessarily make for a better strategic game.
Is the overall game experience truly better with these units included? I can clearly say yes for the other units in the canon. Evidenced by the immense popularity of Uniwar today.
First impression right now is the tank buster is like a cheap artillery unit. Which affects the value of the normal artillery units.

Proposal:
1. Do not permit a game to begin unless all players have the same access to all pieces.
2. Permit the tank buster units only if a certain terrain feature is available on the map.



Problem #1 is moot as soon as the ad system is released. If you said the units shouldn't have been released to ranked without this system in place, I would agree 100% with you. I think release of blasters to ranked went almost as poorly as possible (lack of comm hurt a lot).. but, this will be fixed in future releases, and the ad system I think very effectively addresses your concern.

Problem #2 is a challenging one. For one thing, you reference Uniwar as "incredibly popular"... the player base I think has been consistent. But this is no cash cow like a "Clash of Clans" despite it being imho an infinitely better game. I think we are all Ok with the user base not numbering in the millions, but with player base in the thousands, and development taking a lot of time and money, you have to look at how to make enough money at least to maintain servers and keep the game afloat. New units were and are in high demand! This game was much the same for 7 years, with only the smallest of tweaks to try to achieve that perfect balance.

As a 2400 player who now feels lost with all of the new terrain and units, trying to adjust my strategies and thinking, I sympathize with you. I had FINALLY figured out WHAT and WHEN to build In a lot of matchups. Now I'm forced to reevaluate so much of what I knew. Blasters are not JUST a new unit, they're a specialist that completely redefines the tank and artillery classes. Is a bopper or two gonna be a better investment than a battery?? Do I want a marauder here or that bopper... so many questions and comparisons.

Where I think we differ is that, im not looking for chess 2.0 ... as difficult and challenging as this new content is, i think that that is a better path for a STRATEGY GAME than trying to achieve 100% perfect balance. With chess you've got a perfectly symmetrical map that does not change. With thousands of different RANKED maps, the same units in the same matchup will have wildly different applications and implications. Build order, not only my own but my opponents, work together - along with strategical positioning and planning - to determine the winner. This game can not be static as chess is because the maps are different. Adding in new tools of war, IF they are balanced, will make for a more robust, fun, and in the end... strategic experience.

That's my take anyway.
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WormDog

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WormDog

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Well said. Your pretty much nailed my frustration.

Thinking it over I am likely to be persuaded to your position that Uniwar is not best thought of as a static Chess like game. As long as, as you point out, that the elements introduced truly do add to the game in a balanced and fun fashion.

Right now, problem #1 is still an issue. I hope they do fix it. I can only afford two tank busters for two of my races. That means all the games I am playing right now with the 3rd race are likely lost. And I am unlikely to feel free using the units until it is clear my opponent has the same option.
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miamimoose

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miamimoose

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Evolution happens
Porphyr

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Porphyr

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  Duaneski wrote:Tournament games specifically allow all players to build all the same units.

As for figuring out how to use the units, aaaand, the game being chess like..... well. I think it's gonna take some time to figure out how maps should be designed, what a balanced map will look like, and what and where to build unit wise....

I do feel for your plight in general though. BUT wanted to post that specifically in tourneys you CAN build the units


That is strange. I did a short survey in the German chat, and all that did not yet buy the units told be they can't build them in tourney games...
So tourneys are ATM lost for those that did not happen to buy the tank busters...
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  WormDog wrote:Well said. Your pretty much nailed my frustration.

Thinking it over I am likely to be persuaded to your position that Uniwar is not best thought of as a static Chess like game. As long as, as you point out, that the elements introduced truly do add to the game in a balanced and fun fashion.

Right now, problem #1 is still an issue. I hope they do fix it. I can only afford two tank busters for two of my races. That means all the games I am playing right now with the 3rd race are likely lost. And I am unlikely to feel free using the units until it is clear my opponent has the same option.


That sucks man I think most of the community agrees on a couple points... 1) rollout was bad. No communication was very bad. 2) the ad watching system should have been in place first. 3) sucks even worse, considering 1) and 2) that a two week vacay immediately followed . I love Xavi but man, rough timing :p

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wookieontheweb

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wookieontheweb

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I have a policy of asking the opponent if they want to use the new units near the start of the game. This seems like the simplest solution while we wait the proper fix.

Android 9. Samsung Galaxy A50
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uw-sandman

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uw-sandman

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You are really gonna flip when the Heroes come out...
Kohtar

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Kohtar

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I do have tank busters but I don't like the fact that my opponent doesn't have them. I just peaced a game after realizing my opponent didn't have the new units which screwed up the balance. The solution I suggested from the start, which was giving new units to both players if one of them had them (but no free unicoins, on the other hand) would have been so much better... I'm afraid Uniwar will lose quite a few players because of this policy. And personally I would have paid for the new units (actually partially did for the first batch) , but now I will simply wait to have the unicoins...
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