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New units on Khraleans' perspective
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Michaelrn

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Michaelrn

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I have some concerns about the new units and how they impact the game negatively for the Khraleans. I see the race getting weaker and weaker with every new unit released.


Blaster Units

Borfly is the hardest one to have any utility; the other blasters are much more versatile and give their races more option of play.

Bopper just made the SvK match even worse for K. It is very effective against any K unit. Its 3 Attack range allows it to attack from a relatively safe position; striking it back isn't always possible and it isn't always a good deal.


Amphibious Units

I first got happy when I saw the salamander. It's ability to plague was obviously made to balance the KvS match. But after testing it a couple of times I see it doesn’t really solve the problem. The first flaw: it doesn’t have any attack power against aerial. It just suffers the same problem of the underling being defenseless against helicopter (not to mention that helicopter has an insane attack power against amphibious). K still struggles against S with no good way to contest areas of forest and/or mountain. Salamander doesn't have long range and it's too weak in status for a unit that attacks/plague from close range. A marine standing on forest is stronger than a salamander on forest. Salamander can help as a cheaper way to spread plague, but once it spreads plague it's doesn’t have much more utility.

T and S amphibious units fill almost the same role as the one played by the swarmer and they have some additional benefits. Fuze is 50 credits cheaper but can cause the same damage than swarmer does to the same units; except against ground light where sometimes fuze can have -1 power depending on the defense of its target (a very fair trade for its reduced cost). matisse costs the same but its attack performance is the same of the swarmer or even better, depending on the attacked unit. Fuze and matisse can become even stronger with terrain bonuses, they can be built both on base and harbor and they can capture bases. In many situations Khraleans not only lost the exclusivity of the role played by swarmer but now it also performs poorer that the other races in that same role .

Titans got stronger in TvK match with the matisse but on the other hand K got a semi useless amphibious unit against T. Salamander is just as powerful as a 100 cost infantry unit that can cross water rather than mountain but it costs twice as much.
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LkASr

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LkASr

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Mantisse actually costs the same as a swarmer

but I gotta agree, salamander's not tanky enough against ground lights and its own unit type. Buffing defense to 10 is good imo or at least 8-9 def and 11 mobility, the other 2 have 11 mobility, defeating the purpose underling has :/

adding bury with plague would actually work as a submarine and a tanky underling

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Feb 12, 2017 18:51


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Michaelrn

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Michaelrn

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  LkASr wrote:Mantisse actually costs the same as a swarmer


I know, I said it cost the same as swarmer but it can performs better on attack
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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Yeah. Khral got effed hard. I realized how khral lost out on the swarmer exclusivity and now had the worst of the three of that type of unit. I posted about it in chat and specifically @ Kroeber and sims. Neither responded. So I don't know. Maybe future units are intended to remedy this. But right now I'm turning khrals off on my teams and might start selecting my race as Titans / saps until this is fixed.
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LkASr

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LkASr

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  Duaneski wrote:Yeah. Khral got effed hard. I realized how khral lost out on the swarmer exclusivity and now had the worst of the three of that type of unit. I posted about it in chat and specifically @ Kroeber and sims. Neither responded. So I don't know. Maybe future units are intended to remedy this. But right now I'm turning khrals off on my teams and might start selecting my race as Titans / saps until this is fixed.


I'd like to have armor piercing into the swarmers as well

or at least give it a new ability

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Zardecil

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Zardecil

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The one question I have is why did they buff bopper but then tell us that they weren't doing changes until all the new units were out?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 13, 2017 01:04

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simsverd

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simsverd

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  Michaelrn wrote:I have some concerns about the new units and how they impact the game negatively for the Khraleans. I see the race getting weaker and weaker with every new unit released.

Thank you for your concern. We are considering making some adjustments to the amphibian units before they are released.

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simsverd

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simsverd

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  Zardecil wrote:The one question I have is why did they buff bopper but then tell us that they weren't doing changes until all the new units were out?

Primarily we only want to make adjustmenst to the units currently being released, but if absolutely needed then we will consider other changes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 13, 2017 18:49


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earth

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earth

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Whilst there is no perfect Balance, and nor should there be, the delta should be players skill.

Simple quick fixes to give Khrals a competitive chance in more scenarios is to give:

- Swarmer defence v GL and give a +1 on attack (I prefer on GH)
- Borfly needs to be able to hit and move or move and hit (raise cost to 250)
- Salamander needs some air attack (again raise cost to 250).


Also Guardian needs a reduction versus vehicles in attack, this could be countered if needed by giving heal abilty.

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GOUT

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GOUT

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I think swarmer should get +1 GL. Making it a very effective infantry sniper and also more of a counter to guardian and bopper.

Borfly should get move after attack. Still would fit its nature of having to plan ahead to use it effectively but would allow you to get it off a base. And also protect it better.

Salamander should get +2 aerial.

Guardian should probably be nerfed but then bopper should be nerfed at same time as well. I think saps still dominate Titans on most maps. And I think buffing khral units is more important than nerfing tankbusters.

Michaelrn and duaneski make valid points about the sap and Titan amphibious units encroaching and/or surpassing swarmer's territory/stats. Those two probably will need some nerfing as well.

But if we are doing it incrementally I would rather see khral buffs first.

I also think that tank class units are becoming ineffective for their cost. And we should consider lowering the cost of tank, pinzer and plasma. Especially if bopper and guardian's GH stays were it is.
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Angkor

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Angkor

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  GOUT wrote: ...


100 percent agreed.
Also I think that salamander should get 11 speed points like underings, and both sapiens and titan ampibia should have it 9 due shooting ability.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 13, 2017 22:56

Zardecil

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Zardecil

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  simsverd wrote:
  Zardecil wrote:The one question I have is why did they buff bopper but then tell us that they weren't doing changes until all the new units were out?

Primarily we only want to make adjustmenst to the units currently being released, but if absolutely needed then we will consider other changes.


Why did bopper get buffed back when blasters got released and borfly get ignored then? Despite numerous complaints by many different people about how useless it is in comparison.
join wang

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join wang

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  earth wrote:
- Borfly needs to be able to hit and move or move and hit (raise cost to 250)

Earth


I would say move and attack but thats just me because i prefer a more agressive play style as kharldeans.
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wookieontheweb

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wookieontheweb

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  join wang wrote:
  earth wrote:
- Borfly needs to be able to hit and move or move and hit (raise cost to 250)

Earth


I would say move and attack but thats just me because i prefer a more agressive play style as kharldeans.


I would be concerned that a if Borfly was move/attack and 250 that it is just a swarmer with a different skin. In fact it's an upgraded swarmer due to it armour piercing.

I think an increase in movement would help the Borfly at its current cost. If you could make several and place them in range of artillery. Then even though they are weak and would get taken down quickly if any survived they would be quite damaging.

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Michaelrn

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Michaelrn

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I agree with most of what people said here, and another interesting point highlighted is that the 11 mobility of S and T amphibious against the 9 mobility of salamander can take away from khrals it's advantage of being the race that can reach faster bases to capture (to reach by moving, not considering teleport).
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