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simsverd

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simsverd

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With the buff for salamander and swarmer, the K vs S matchup now seems pretty good. These changes did not affect k vs T so much and we need to make the salamander more viable vs titan.
Speeder will get a -2 to amphibious attacks.

We also discuss giving tanks +1 defence. This will make the tankbusters do a little less dammage, but will affect other units more - giving the tanks a little more usability.

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LkASr

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LkASr

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Idk about -2 amphibious power to speeder, since it's a melee unit and this shouts advantage to salamander.

Hey, I got an idea, if you're doubting about the tank units' capabilities, I'll make a full list of what we can buff or change (besides +1 def):

-Buff mobility by 1
-Buff repair by 1, but we might slightly increase their cost
-Add an ability
-Add either add armor piercing or a new mechanic (such as my armor protection or some other form)
-Speaking of mechanic above, add a terrain like mechanic that either allow them to either increase adjacent allied units' stats by 1 or decrease adjacent enemy units' stats by 1
-Reduce cost by 25-50
-Make a few adjustments on some terrain
-Buff range to 1-2, but remove their ability to attack after move
-Buff all atk power by 1
-Grant immunity against EMP, Plague, and UV Ray
-Allow them to trample over an adjacent ground light without taking damage, but this will not allow them to move when doing so till next turn
-Grant them the ability to ignore ZoC

I'll think of more in the future
So choose what you want with the ideas I have right now

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 02, 2017 15:38


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simsverd

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simsverd

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  LkASr wrote:Idk about -2 amphibious power to speeder, since it's a melee unit and this shouts advantage to salamander.

Hey, I got an idea, if you're doubting about the tank units' capabilities, I'll make a full list of what we can buff or change (besides +1 def):

I'll think of more in the future
So choose what you want with the ideas I have right now

just throwing out ideas serve little purpose here... at least not ideas that require changes to the game other than just changing of current stats.
If you think you have better ideas that what we are currently suggesting - please elaborate and exemplify.

The options that have been discussed is a reduction in price, perhaps 50 or giving +1 defense to tanks. We dont want to nerf the tankbusters GH, since that is what they are designed to do. We will consider nerfing other stats on tankbusters at a later time, but not now.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Apr 02, 2017 20:16


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LkASr

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LkASr

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  simsverd wrote:
  LkASr wrote:Idk about -2 amphibious power to speeder, since it's a melee unit and this shouts advantage to salamander.

Hey, I got an idea, if you're doubting about the tank units' capabilities, I'll make a full list of what we can buff or change (besides +1 def):

I'll think of more in the future
So choose what you want with the ideas I have right now

just throwing out ideas serve little purpose here... at least not ideas that require changes to the game other than just changing of current stats.

If you think you have better ideas that what we are currently suggesting - please elaborate and exemplify.

The options that have been discussed is a reduction in price, perhaps 50 or giving +1 defense to tanks. We dont want to nerf the tankbusters GH, since that is what they are designed to do. We will consider nerfing other stats on tankbusters at a later time, but not now.


We could perhaps just give Tank units immunity against said special forces (EMP, Plague, and UV), that way they're indirectly buffed as having no effects from them would make them strong.

Alternatively, trampling a ground light wouldn't sound bad either. Basically, using trample means that Tanks have the ability to instantly kill a ground light unit, saving it time, however, it only works during your turn.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 02, 2017 23:05


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Phill_the_ll

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Phill_the_ll

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I see we have here a new balance update! I'll give you guys me 2 cents.

firstly, speeder -2 amphibian seems ok for the most part. It will be interesting to see how much that will fix the matchup.

Anyways, I don't like the changes proposed to fix tanks. Giving tanks +1 defence doesn't make sense to me. First of all, a tank buster will just pierce 50% of it anyways. However, i mainly hate this idea because artillery will be thrown out of wack. Batteries that have a hard enough time attacking plasmas will loose thier main use. And wyrms, which some people think 9 gh is low, will have to put up with it having an "8" gh if tanks def gets +1. I also don't want tanks to be cheaper. It will throw off thier effectiveness vs other units. I also fear that will mess up the balance of maps.

Anyways, enough of me being a hater. I think fixing the problem lies in keeping the tanks the same and changing the tank busters. And before you think I am going to suggest lowering thier gh, I am not. I think lowering thier other stats to make them more vulnerable and thus they will do less to tanks while keeping thier "big punch". since this will happen in a little but anyways, I say the balance lies in patience.

Ok, so thier is my lengthy 2 cents. What do you guys think?
charclo

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charclo

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I don't like the idea to give +1 armor to tanks because it makes tankbusters the only option to deal damage to them (bad gameplay).
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StarryBlink

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StarryBlink

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  charclo wrote:I don't like the idea to give +1 armor to tanks because it makes tankbusters the only option to deal damage to them (bad gameplay).


Agree. Infantry, jeep/speeder/swarmer will no more do any injury to tank.
And that will be really bad to gameplay.
Today we still able to extract 1-2 hp damage from tank by infantry with an ample strategy.
That make the game fun.

Also note that the majority of player don't own blasters yet.
To them tanks will looked like immortal wall with iron teeth

I agree with Phill.
If you don't want to reduce blasters GH attack,
then nerf other stat instead.
Maybe reduce its movement or infantry/aerial/amphibian attack.

Then players will have to use them more cautiously.
Open more opportunities for tanks to run freely in the battlefield.

Note that eclipses is used very rare now.
The indicator that guardian is much more cost-effective compare to eclipse.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 03, 2017 11:31

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wookieontheweb

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wookieontheweb

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I think until the feature release of new units for all with ads, then there will be many battles without these units (e.g. all new players). In those cases it was generally considered that the balance for each of the units for each of the races was right. That being the case the only option is to massage the stats of the new units until they fit better into the currently balanced units. That would imply that making them more specialised seems fairer than buffing their primary targets e.g. by making them more vulnerable and/or less effective to GL, aerial, aquatic, etc.

Initially though I thought this sounded like a good idea, but I have all the new units. One small change I would add would be about a 10% armour piercing to artillery type units vs GH to compensate the +1 buff.

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killermax636

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killermax636

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Personally, I have always been a protester to any change in the name of balance, but always got used to them in the end. Who knows how the new changes will affect the game? Just observing.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Apr 03, 2017 13:43

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Angkor

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Angkor

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I'm deeply against tank-units boost in defence.

What I'm in for:
+significant buff for reprogrammed mecha a.k.a mecha2, which may solve a problem of engineer being too weak now. +1 GL and +1 DEF maybe.
+movement for bopper changed into 6 so to reduce advantage sapiens as for now has against titans. 3 attack range is a very serious deal, so it's reasonable to that unit have a bit harder time with moving in proper position.
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LkASr

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LkASr

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  Angkor wrote:I'm deeply against tank-units boost in defence.

What I'm in for:
+significant buff for reprogrammed mecha a.k.a mecha2, which may solve a problem of engineer being too weak now. +1 GL and +1 DEF maybe.
+movement for bopper changed into 6 so to reduce advantage sapiens as for now has against titans. 3 attack range is a very serious deal, so it's reasonable to that unit have a bit harder time with moving in proper position.


the range only matters if it's like 1-3 or 2-3 or anywhere there to me, only having the range of just 3 throws them off if they're cramped

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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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Sims,

Love the speeder adjustment. will have to watch Fuze v titans post change but I expect it will be good very nice.

As for tanks. I mostly agree w Phil. I would personally prefer a small nerf to blasters versus a buff to tanks. (Increase to blaster GH and decrease to AP could keep their damage profile similar to marauder class units but slightly reduce their effectiveness against tanks... achieving a similar goal while leaving tank balance otherwise the same. I believe Azorius had posted that in chat originally...

That said, I'm willing to try anything

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EVR1022

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EVR1022

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-2 to Speeder Amphibian attack is a very good step at helping Khrals survive open maps against Titans.

The tank-class problem... I'm not sure what the solution is, but I'm confident it's not +1 defense. Making tank-busters the only viable way to take down tank-class units is not a good idea in my opinion. Perhaps a 5% reduction in Borfly and Guardian armor-piercing against ground heavy? Perhaps the 50c cost drop? +1 GL and Amphib attack for tank and plasma? 7 mobility for plasma tank? Perhaps some combination of these ideas would do the trick.
Kohtar

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Kohtar

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There's no need to buff tanks, at least the sapiens and khralen version. The plasma tank suffers from his lack of regeneration though: while the other tanks will heal easily after a blaster attack, things are harder for the plasma. And, with AP, it takes almost as much damage as the other classes from blasters. So, if you have to change the tanks, give the plasma a better regen (and maybe a 50 increase in price)
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StarryBlink

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StarryBlink

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The armor piercing mechanic make superior defence of plasma tank meaningless.
Reduce % armor piercing and increase the GH attack of blasters instead should make plasma tank's defence valid again.

And, actually, why do we need the armor piercing mechanic at the first place ?
Wyrm has 9 GH attack and usually deal 2 hp damage to plasma tank.
Then why don't just let blasters borrow wyrm's cannon to fight ground-heavies ?

They'll have simply massive 9 GH attack. But no armor piercing.
And they'll usually deal 2hp damage to plasma tank and 3hp damage to pinzer/tank.
That's easy to understand. Easy to compare the strength across all units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 05, 2017 06:00

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