Thoughts on Map Voting System (Lengthy, Verbose Comments)

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Apr 16, 2017 20:43

Subject: Thoughts on Map Voting System (Lengthy, Verbose Comments)

Eikonoklastes

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Joined: Jan 24, 2016,
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Over the past couple of weeks, there has been an increase in the amount of wrangling, petty commentary, and immature behavior regarding the up and down voting of player created maps. Admittedly these reactions are not entirely without some small justification. The current system is, after all, easily abused with perfectly good maps being unfairly downvoted, and more questionable/dubious maps being up voted for reasons other than their actual merits. How to fix this is a matter of substantial debate, and I myself have only partial answers to provide. That being said, it is a matter that needs to be more thoroughly discussed, and this conversation needs to take into account far more than the current state of the pool of rated maps. Instead, it is essential that the map makers themselves be thoroughly considered for without them, this game would most like have died out long ago.

Although clearly present in the numerous frustrations vented in the game’s chat system, the feelings of the map makers seldom play a role in arguments for or against revising the current map voting system. This, of course, is a mistake that will most likely end up significantly hurting the game at some point in the future. The reason for this omission is that most people prefer to view the voting system in purely analytical terms; they address the matter as a technical problem in need of a rational solution and failing to find one (or being too busy to address the matter), they are content to shelve the issue until a later date. Admittedly the actual problem and eventual solution may prove to be technical in nature; however, thinking solely in such terms completely ignores the psychological aspect of the problem. Simply put, many of our map makers are growing increasingly angry and frustrated over the pitfalls of the current system, and some (perhaps many) are considering putting an end to their map making endeavors.

Taking a closer look at this problem, the current system allows people to anonymously vote on any map without having to provide any sort of feedback. The rationale being that anonymity helps to protect the voter from retaliation, whereas the lack of mandatory feedback makes players more likely to vote. Truth be told, this system has produced many positive results. Numerous unbalanced maps have been down voted and removed from random rated game play, and this has done wonders for the community. Therefore, it is clear that some sort of voting or filtering system is needed to help regulate the deluge of player created maps. That being said, the current system fails to take into account that map making is ultimately a creative process; that is, the time and energy poured into these maps make them an extension of the map maker’s sense of self – a reflection of his/her identity as it were. Furthermore, the more time and energy put into refining a given map (e.g., refining the map via comments and test games), the greater the connection between creator and creation. While seemingly abstract, this connection between investment and attachment is important for it helps to explain why so many map makers are currently fed up with the current system. They essentially pour themselves into their creations, only to have their maps – and by extension their sense of self – unfairly maligned by those who take a perverse joy in hurting others.

Apr 16, 2017 20:45

Subject: Re:Thoughts on Map Voting System (Lengthy, Verbose Comments)

Eikonoklastes

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While the above easy to dismiss as sentimental claptrap, the howls of frustration reverberating through the English and Basement chats clearly suggest otherwise. Map makers are increasing growing discontent with the misuse and abuse of the current system, and some have even gone so far as to give up map making entirely. Should this continue, we could easily find ourselves with an increasing shrinking pool of rated maps; a prospect I’m sure that none of you have made it this far into the post wishes to see happen.

Before getting into one or two possible solutions, it is important to mention that the map makers themselves are not entirely without blame. Over the past couple of weeks, there has been an increasing number of inane arguments regarding individual map making practices. People harping about how another’s map is not symmetrical, or how they don’t like a map because it has holes in it (i.e., the use of null space). While it is true that some of the singled-out maps are, in fact, imbalanced, the fact remains that the impetus for these critiques are principally aesthetic in nature. Of course, each and every person is entitled to an opinion, but framing these critiques in terms of personal preference causes more harm than good. It can lead others to downvote perfectly good maps based on elements of style rather than functionality, actions that will only end up hurting us as a community. I would humbly ask that our more vocal map makers to be more prudent in their commentary, and to carefully consider whether their opinions stem from issues of mechanics or style. Map making is, after all, a form of art, and within any given art form there are varying styles. We currently have Classicists (e.g., they prefer symmetry above all else), Modernists (they like playing around with asymmetrical styles), and Surrealists (they like playing with black/null space to create unique concepts). When giving other map makers advice, try to put your biases and preconceptions away and focus solely on a given map’s merits. What works, what doesn’t work, and why you think so.

As to how to go about addressing the numerous flaws in the current map voting system, I only have a few vague notions and must ultimately defer to others. I would, however, argue that allowing people to vote anonymously on maps that they have not yet played should be temporarily disabled. Although it has had some positive outcomes (see above), it is far too easy to misuse and abuse. Not only do some people go out of their way to downvote the maps of others regardless of quality (i.e. Trolls), but far too many players allow outside factors to influence their votes. New and/or inexperienced players will up or down vote a map based solely on the opinions of more experienced players (who may or may not be correct in their assertions), and others will cast their votes based on their views opinions of the map maker him/herself; that is, people will upvote a map out of loyalty to a friend, or downvote it because they do not like the person in question. Such practices are ultimately a disservice to both the map maker as well as the community as a whole. Until the abuses inherent to current system are properly addressed, a temporary shutdown of that aspect of the voting system is worth considering (i.e., users must actually play on a map before being able to vote on it).

I would also recommend a slight alteration to how map voting works at the conclusion of a random rated game. As we all know, many players are quick to blame the map for their defeat. While the map can be at fault, more often than not it is the person being reflected on the phone’s or tablet’s screen that is to blame. This problem, however, could be addressed with a delayed carrot approach. The way this would work is relatively simple. Once a rated game has come to an end, neither party is allowed to vote on the map for a 24-hour period. This will give both parties time to cooldown and reflect on the game in a more calm and rational manner. Once they have voted, they will receive a small reward of 5 unicoins. This will help to encourage players to take the time to vote on completed games. Also, those who still feel the need to downvote the map should be required to provide some brief feedback to explain/justify their decision (they are getting some unicoins after all). This feedback could be sent to the map maker in a private message, or it could be attached to the map directly (add an option to turn comments on and off).

These are merely some of my thoughts on the map making issue currently festering in the various chats. As previously stated, I have chosen to focus more of the psychological nature of the problem rather than the technical aspects, and I am keenly aware that this approach suffers from numerous limitations. Nonetheless I would like to hear what others have to say (be it positive or negative) so that this discussion continues to grow. If the problem is to be eventually solved, we cannot allow it to be shelved once more.

And yes, I do know that I’m a windy, arrogant blowhard.

Apr 17, 2017 18:41

Subject: Re:Thoughts on Map Voting System (Lengthy, Verbose Comments)

LexTalionis

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Joined: Mar 21, 2017,
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http://forum.uniwar.com/posts/list/2912.page#21507

Been discussed at length here some too.

With a 24- hour delay on voting, you'd need to make sure people don't accidentally delete games. I think there should be no vote delay, and instead of offering a reward, just make voting mandatory, and haven losing player upvotes and winning player downvotes count double. This ensures that if both players vote against each other, assuming they same rank, the vote count stays static, but if the player who would normally vote based on the outcome goes against the norm, the map is rewarded or removed based on real play feedback.

Limiting votes to only played games beyond 7 rounds will hopefully remove the random public voting that seems to take place, and it will allow map makers to freely post maps to public chat for testing along users.

Apr 18, 2017 11:46

Subject: Thoughts on Map Voting System (Lengthy, Verbose Comments)

wookieontheweb

Messages: 485,
Joined: Jan 27, 2016,
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I quite like the small reward idea, but I am still against the mandatory form filling for down voting.

Some ideas (some already mentioned):
1- A way to list where your map is being played, then watch/store those games (excluding tournaments). Could be a store buy option.
2- Extra down vote button for unbalanced to distinguish dislike from unbalanced.
3- Only allowed to vote once you have achieved a particular rank. Maybe different for up and down e.g. up votes at 1700+ down at 1900+
4- Feedback button - just auto fills a PM to the map creator with a link to the map/game and lets you type a message. Could be anonymous.
5- Popup on down vote, similar to 4, but on a popup. "Send feedback for down vote?" Yes / No
6- Change when down votes cause map to be unrated
7- Increase value of up votes. E.g. by adding some percentage of the times played.
8- Map moderators. List of people that can force a map rated/unrated permanently irrespective of the votes. Could be by setting the inbuilt map flag.
9- Remove the voting all together and have maps enter the rated pool some other way e.g. Map moderators, map chat room etc
10- Change the rating from +/- to a 1 to 5 survey. e.g. Is the map balanced? 1 2 3 4 5 NA Do you like the aesthetics? 1 2 3 4 5 NA. Derive the ranked status from that.
11- Maps only become rated for same race match ups (silver rated) 25% more positive before they become any race match ups (gold rated) 50% more positive.

Yeah this subject has bothered me too. Incidentally getting 3+ player and team maps rated and to stay rated seems much much easier. Not really sure why.

Android 9. Samsung Galaxy A50

Apr 19, 2017 00:24

Subject: Re:Thoughts on Map Voting System (Lengthy, Verbose Comments)

mistercreepy

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Location: Hong Kong
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I like number two, seems like a good idea. But I think all of these suggestions are made without the full context of how a map goes from unranked to ranked. Pretty sure the higher you are rated the more your votes count. So how would a vote for "unbalanced" be factored in to the ranking? Is it worth the same as a downvote?

I think best would be to have a checklist of options to explain your vote. Exactly what they are, I don't know. There would still be a simple up or down vote. But these other options would prompt people to think about why they are making their vote.

Apr 24, 2017 18:32

Subject: Re:Thoughts on Map Voting System (Lengthy, Verbose Comments)

copeab

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Joined: Jun 25, 2014,
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When I started in September 2012, you had to have a score of 1700+ to vote on a map and you had to play a map before you could vote on it.

I strongly favor having to play a map before you can vote on it. Because how much a player's vote is worth varies with score, I'm not sure if we need a minimum voting score.

Apr 24, 2017 19:23

Subject: Re:Thoughts on Map Voting System (Lengthy, Verbose Comments)

uw-sandman

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Joined: Mar 07, 2014,
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What if we had a system where voting is intuitive toward the map using the existing system? What I mean is this..

In the map editor under map properties we could have a map classification system. This way the author can determine the voting pool the map should be in. The options would be

- competitive (generally the maps intended for the rated pool
- fun play (could name it something else.. but these are the "for fun" non rated intention maps)
- specialty (this section would contain all other kinds of maps such as map templates, jokes [like dead monk detroit], or oddball maps such as some of my own in the grand war [really not meant for play outcomes the way the game normally works]

Then when the map is published, it will remain in those voting categories for its lifetime. Each category will have a differing rate schedule potentially.. but this way players can vote on a true feeling of the map against the actual map intention. Rated pool maps will require a play before vote. Fun maps do not. Specialty maps do not, but due to their category can never become rated. This way players can show they really like an idea without worry of the map concept getting into rated.. just some thoughts.. anyone want to expand on this idea?

Apr 24, 2017 19:39

Subject: Re:Thoughts on Map Voting System (Lengthy, Verbose Comments)

uw-sandman

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Just to expand on my idea and use some of the above.. the balance vote is important. There could even be a scale indicator or hud of some kind showing the favor. 3 races so a triangle graph could show on the map info when looking at a map. Similarly, the voting could be 4 options on a triangle orientation for the vote (instead of thumbs) at each angle could be a race and the center could be a thumbup. Choosing a race would mean that you feel the map leans toward a bias for that race. The center would mean you considered it a good balance.

Also, to add some more to the existing vote system.. you know how some console games have preset chat messays since you can't type? Like "way to go!" Or "@$#!%" or "you suck!"
Well, similar to any survey you may have taken there could be mandated preset feedback that comes with a vote. So if you down vote you have to pick a reason why before it is counted. The reasons would be brief.. i.e. "low money" "imbalanced" "ugly" "not symmetric" "too big" "don't like tile color" etc..

They could be anything.. but even brief feedback allows for an author to revisit a map and work to make it better for players. One of the biggest griefs about the voting system is getting down thumbs but no reason why.. at least with brief preset feedback options we can get a better idea of what the community temperature is. Map authors want you to enjoy the map for the most part. Unless it's a joke why else make one? Getting feedback in this way is simple and overall would aid in better quality maps being made as well as lend credence to some votes that occur.

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