[Search] Search   [Recent Topics] Recent   [Hottest Topics] Hottest   [Login] Login
Dealing with Salamander spam.
Forum Index » Sapiens
R3dRevenge

Messages: 9,
Joined: May 05, 2017,
Offline

R3dRevenge

Messages: 9,
Joined: May 05, 2017,
Offline
Hello all,

I'm a returning player (2,300 player) who decided to get back into the game due to the new units and updated systems. I made a new account and began playing.

Recently, I've ran into the problems against Salamander spam on heavily watered maps and low/mid income (300-400).

The game that I'm currently playing is on Frozen Islands Refurbished (sorry I can't display a picture). Basically my opponent spends his begining 2-3 turns purchasing 5-6 Salamanders and spreads them across the maps pressuring my city income. Then he begins purchasing his airforce (Swarmer + Garudas).

The problem is Saps Fuze unit is terrible against air units and is pretty weak when damaging defense 10 Salamanders. I've found that Helicopers + Maruders are the most effective way with dealing with this strategy, however the constant plague backlash is brutal on my units.

I'm beginning to think that Salamanders are incredibly strong or Fuze being to weak leading to an imbalance.

What do you think? Any advice?







This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 05, 2017 21:50

dr. pepper

Messages: 127,
Joined: Aug 08, 2009,
Offline

dr. pepper

Messages: 127,
Joined: Aug 08, 2009,
Offline
  R3dRevenge wrote:Hello all,

I'm a returning player (2,300 player) who decided to get back into the game due to the new units and updated systems. I made a new account and began playing.

Recently, I've ran into the problems against Salamander spam on heavily watered maps and low/mid income (300-400).

The game that I'm currently playing is on Frozen Islands Refurbished (sorry I can't display a picture). Basically my opponent spends his begining 2-3 turns purchasing 5-6 Salamanders and spreads them across the maps pressuring my city income. Then he begins purchasing his airforce (Swarmer + Garudas).

The problem is Saps Fuze unit is terrible against air units and is pretty weak when damaging defense 10 Salamanders. I've found that Helicopers + Maruders are the most effective way with dealing with this strategy, however the constant plague backlash is brutal on my units.

I'm beginning to think that Salamanders are incredibly strong or Fuze being to weak leading to an imbalance.

What do you think? Any advice?


There's a thread in the General Discussion board about the Fuze being weak (http://forum.uniwar.com/posts/list/2948.page) and I also responded in another thread (http://forum.uniwar.com/posts/list/30/2857.page) where I made the point that the Fuze is the weakest amphibian and also that Saps have less anti-air than other races). I've experienced similar problems on maps that have a lot of water, reefs, and swamps. Typically, marines are one of the most cost efficient ways to deal with a lot of Khralean units.

But when you're on a water heavy map with the aforementioned tiles, marines become useless when you take into account the negative attack and defense adjustments. So that leaves you with limited options to deal with Salamanders, Swarmers, and Garudas. In fact, you're really only left with Helis, Marauders, and Batteries that deal significant air damage and batteries are too susceptible unless they're adequately protected. So it's pretty much Helis + Marauders or bust on these types of maps, which is especially awful when you consider marauders can't even travel on reefs.

I've said it over and over again, but the Fuze needs some slight buffs to a combination of a couple different values including mobility, defense strength, aerial attack, or armor piercing to aerial. Without it, I do not see how you're supposed to win on these types of maps. I'd be interested in hearing from the top players on how to win SvK on reef / swamp maps

This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at May 10, 2017 17:26

R3dRevenge

Messages: 9,
Joined: May 05, 2017,
Offline

R3dRevenge

Messages: 9,
Joined: May 05, 2017,
Offline
I appreciate the response.


Your assessment is exactly what I've found. What needs to happen is they need to remove plague backlash. If this was fixed and Fuze got a mobility/damage increase, it would become balanced.
[Avatar]
LkASr

Messages: 752,
Joined: Sep 24, 2015,
Offline

[Avatar]
LkASr

Messages: 752,
Joined: Sep 24, 2015,
Offline
  R3dRevenge wrote:I appreciate the response.


Your assessment is exactly what I've found. What needs to happen is they need to remove plague backlash. If this was fixed and Fuze got a mobility/damage increase, it would become balanced.


Plague on Salamander is actually pretty needed, causing as much disruption to the saps as possible, it's just the saps are heavily underpowered from nerfs

Never surrender when you still have the chance.
"I have achieved navel superiority" -myself 2017
All the good stuff [WoT Generals Beta Tester, Uniwar Beta Tester, Vainglory Hero Suggestions List Contributor]
Come look at my profile for more info
R3dRevenge

Messages: 9,
Joined: May 05, 2017,
Offline

R3dRevenge

Messages: 9,
Joined: May 05, 2017,
Offline
  LkASr wrote:
  R3dRevenge wrote:I appreciate the response.


Your assessment is exactly what I've found. What needs to happen is they need to remove plague backlash. If this was fixed and Fuze got a mobility/damage increase, it would become balanced.


Plague on Salamander is actually pretty needed, causing as much disruption to the saps as possible, it's just the saps are heavily underpowered from nerfs


It seems that saps have the worst blaster and amphi units out of the three races. Then again I'm still new to the units.
[Avatar]
wookieontheweb

Messages: 485,
Joined: Jan 27, 2016,
Location: Southampton, UK
Offline

[Avatar]
wookieontheweb

Messages: 485,
Joined: Jan 27, 2016,
Location: Southampton, UK
Offline
  R3dRevenge wrote:It seems that saps have the worst blaster and amphi units out of the three races. Then again I'm still new to the units.


Not sure I agree. I think Bopper is better than Borfly. They move then attack with range 3 and take no return fire from any units except artillery/boat types. Positioning Borfly is far more difficult.

Android 9. Samsung Galaxy A50
Pento

Messages: 97,
Joined: Feb 14, 2017,
Offline

Pento

Messages: 97,
Joined: Feb 14, 2017,
Offline
But Borfly costs 50% less and deals more damage to ALL kind of units.

I like bopper and it's easier to handle, but an experienced player gets more benefit out of a Borfly.
[Avatar]
StarryBlink

Messages: 184,
Joined: Jan 04, 2012,
Offline

[Avatar]
StarryBlink

Messages: 184,
Joined: Jan 04, 2012,
Offline
  R3dRevenge wrote:Hello all,

I'm a returning player (2,300 player) who decided to get back into the game due to the new units and updated systems. I made a new account and began playing.

Recently, I've ran into the problems against Salamander spam on heavily watered maps and low/mid income (300-400).

The game that I'm currently playing is on Frozen Islands Refurbished (sorry I can't display a picture). Basically my opponent spends his begining 2-3 turns purchasing 5-6 Salamanders and spreads them across the maps pressuring my city income. Then he begins purchasing his airforce (Swarmer + Garudas).

The problem is Saps Fuze unit is terrible against air units and is pretty weak when damaging defense 10 Salamanders. I've found that Helicopers + Maruders are the most effective way with dealing with this strategy, however the constant plague backlash is brutal on my units.

I'm beginning to think that Salamanders are incredibly strong or Fuze being to weak leading to an imbalance.

What do you think? Any advice?




I never encounter this situation yet.

But I ever played the opposite when I was kharl and opponent was sap
in a random map with heavy water & coral. No shipyard.

At start, I spammed salamander while he spammed fuze.
And I just win right away killing his fuzes one after one.

Then he tried marines & copters instead.
His situation was better. But not enough. I won.

So I think your strategy using copters & jeeps is already among the optimal one.

Actually, copter maybe the only unit you can truely rely against salamander spam.
But it's difficult since copter is very expensive.

Using fuze against salamander is really don't work.

In my opinion, fuze is underpowered compare to salamander & mantise.
It should get +1 defense and +1 mobility to be equal to other amphibians.
wargasm

Messages: 11,
Joined: Mar 21, 2017,
Offline

wargasm

Messages: 11,
Joined: Mar 21, 2017,
Offline
Fuze sucks, use marines.
R3dRevenge

Messages: 9,
Joined: May 05, 2017,
Offline

R3dRevenge

Messages: 9,
Joined: May 05, 2017,
Offline
  wookieontheweb wrote:
  R3dRevenge wrote:It seems that saps have the worst blaster and amphi units out of the three races. Then again I'm still new to the units.


Not sure I agree. I think Bopper is better than Borfly. They move then attack with range 3 and take no return fire from any units except artillery/boat types. Positioning Borfly is far more difficult.


I agree that positioning the borfly is more difficult, but the unit is far more rewarding for better players. It costs 100 less and can always move after shooting. If you position it right it can really wreck havoc on your opponents lines.

Honestly, I'd take the Borfly over the Missile Launcher.
Pento

Messages: 97,
Joined: Feb 14, 2017,
Offline

Pento

Messages: 97,
Joined: Feb 14, 2017,
Offline

The Bopper has the advantage that it moves before the attack, like that you can reach out up to 5 tiles.
That can make you game much faster.
If you build a bopper it's nearly instantly in the game. The Borfly normally has to be adjusted , at least one round, to be effective.
But once the Borfly is in the game it is absolutly destructive.
[Avatar]
Duaneski

Messages: 1021,
Joined: Nov 27, 2015,
Offline

[Avatar]
Duaneski

Messages: 1021,
Joined: Nov 27, 2015,
Offline
The good news - soon the game will add these underwater units, and saps will have a new way to respond to the salamander.

In the meantime, personally I think it comes down to the map.

Recon Force Pro, man I have such a heck of a time as saps there. I'm not sayings it is impossible but I just think with that cut out middle and the credit point and the cozy spots for Sally to sit in.... it's almost a dream for khral.

A more open map, however, that plays to the strengths of saps a little bit, where the mobility of a marauder can really shine, and the khral player is forced to go with a more defensive approach (letting the sap player get a battery or a couple helicopter on the board, or threaten a base capture quicker than the khral can..) can help.

There are a lot of examples of open maps... but think about ones like "Trojanhat" , "birthday" , "islandconquest3" , or "Constantinople" that would maybe play to the saps strengths a bit more... might be better balanced for this matchup currently.

But. I'm not an expert. That's just my thoughts.

And I don't like the idea of buffing the Fuze. For its cost I think it does plenty. I would rather see one defense point subtracted from Sally at this point. Make him a little more susceptible to damage in general.... but theres no science to that decision honestly
Pento

Messages: 97,
Joined: Feb 14, 2017,
Offline

Pento

Messages: 97,
Joined: Feb 14, 2017,
Offline
The real problem of the salamander is, that every attack infects a sapien unit.
So for very little money you destroy the whole organization of a sap army.
That should be restricted.
Apart from that it is just another unit.
dr. pepper

Messages: 127,
Joined: Aug 08, 2009,
Offline

dr. pepper

Messages: 127,
Joined: Aug 08, 2009,
Offline
  Duaneski wrote:
And I don't like the idea of buffing the Fuze. For its cost I think it does plenty. I would rather see one defense point subtracted from Sally at this point. Make him a little more susceptible to damage in general.... but theres no science to that decision honestly


I really do believe the Fuze is underpowered for its' cost. Therefore, I think it should be buffed. Problem is that I think Saps are currently stronger than Titans, and it might create a further imbalance.

Not sure what the current opinion is on the balance between Saps vs. Khraleans. My only comment is similar to what others have expressed where I think Saps struggle (vs. Khral) on smaller reef/water heavy maps where unit compositions are more limited.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jun 02, 2017 22:46

Forum Index » Sapiens
Powered by JForum 2.1.9 © - 2020-04-14 v124 - UniWar website