Terrain Visibility

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Terrain Visibility - yes or no?
Yes	88%	[ 7 ]
No	13%	[ 1 ]
Total Votes : 8

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May 29, 2017 01:23

Subject: Terrain Visibility

Little Omar

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Imagine not being able to see past mountains at all. There could be an ambush waiting on the other side. Or an enemy that can't see you coming. Your options are to send a scout around the mountains, or to send a unit to scale their peak. Once you get on the mountain (or to the far side of a range more than one-wide), not only can you suddenly survey the landscape below, you also get a range boost.

Imagine sending troops into a deep forest, not being able to see more than two deep. Unless you have an engineer, who's got the equipment to see twice as far.

I think it's time to reconsider the idea that terrain ought to affect visibility, just as it affects movement. As Dogalyst put it 8 years ago:

The Dogalyst wrote: This is an excellent idea. In other words, treat visibility just like mobility. Each unit has a vision strength, and each terrain has a vision cost.

For example, a marine could have a vision of 8, but the cost to look over flat ground would be 2, so they could see 4 spaces away if it were all flat, just like they can today. But the cost of forest would be 4, so they could only see thru 2 cells of forest, and the cost of mountain would be 6, so they could never see past a mountain range. Aerial units would typically not be affected by terrain, except perhaps mountains because these are not high altitude units and mountains have lots of nooks and crannies -- maybe they should only be able to see across two mountain cells.

The advantages of terrain visibility in terms of gameplay:

It adds a strategy dimension to the game that is very intuitive. (The game today is a little bit too heavy on precision tactics. One wrong build decision on many maps dooms you).

It enables tactics like ambushes.

Scouting abilities become even more important.

It makes map design a lot more interesting.

Requirements

We'd want to design it to be intuitive. For example:

No units can see past mountains, even aerial. High seas limit visiblity even for aerial, etc.

If visibility represents a unit's ability to scout its surroundings, then at least visibility should never be greater than movement range past mountains. Only on flat lands should visibility be greater than movement.

We'd want the design to keep the races balanced. For example, give Titans some vision technology to make up for their lack of aerial unit

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at May 29, 2017 01:41

May 29, 2017 01:44

Subject: Re:Terrain Visibility

Little Omar

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If there was a concern that this would break existing maps, terrain visibility could be made a setting on the map design itself. I'd prefer we not do this, but it's an option.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 29, 2017 01:46

May 29, 2017 01:58

Subject: Re:Terrain Visibility

Duaneski

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Love the idea. But I imagine it would be a big rewrite

May 29, 2017 03:20

Subject: Re:Terrain Visibility

LkASr

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I.. already suggested it last year..

http://forum.uniwar.com/posts/list/2269.page

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 29, 2017 03:21

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May 31, 2017 01:35

Subject: Re:Terrain Visibility

Duaneski

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LkASr wrote:I.. already suggested it last year..

http://forum.uniwar.com/posts/list/2269.page

Your sug bites. This one rulez

May 31, 2017 01:54

Subject: Re:Terrain Visibility

LkASr

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Duaneski wrote:

LkASr wrote:I.. already suggested it last year..

http://forum.uniwar.com/posts/list/2269.page

Your sug bites. This one rulez

Never surrender when you still have the chance.
"I have achieved navel superiority" -myself 2017
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May 31, 2017 02:58

Subject: Re:Terrain Visibility

Duaneski

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LkASr wrote:

Duaneski wrote:

LkASr wrote:I.. already suggested it last year..

http://forum.uniwar.com/posts/list/2269.page

Your sug bites. This one rulez

:p

Reviewing your post... the principle is similar. I think the big thing with this post / idea is that he fleshed out specifically how this could be built and incorporated into the game. A clear picture for how it would look, function, and logically be built can go a long way to articulating an idea

May 31, 2017 08:10

Subject: Terrain Visibility

wookieontheweb

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Isn't this idea slightly derailed because of the undo problem? Especially now everyone has infinite undo. i.e. Move marine to mountain "oh look scary stuff, undo."

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May 31, 2017 08:11

Subject: Re:Terrain Visibility

simsverd

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I love the idea.. but i dont think it will be done.

It will be a big rewrite and it will also complicate the game. For the common user (wich is the majority), uniwar is already very complex and hard to learn , and any changes to the game must be evaluated with that in mind...

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Jun 01, 2017 03:57

Subject: Terrain Visibility

R3dRevenge

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Neat idea, but vision is almost useless not due to unlimited undo's.

This idea sounds like to much work for something that will add little to gameplay.

Jun 01, 2017 04:29

Subject: Terrain Visibility

LkASr

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R3dRevenge wrote:Neat idea, but vision is almost useless not due to unlimited undo's.

This idea sounds like to much work for something that will add little to gameplay.

well, nerf vision even more

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Jun 06, 2017 00:55

Subject: Re:Terrain Visibility

Little Omar

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LkASr wrote:
I.. already suggested it last year..

http://forum.uniwar.com/posts/list/2269.page

Actually, it was suggested 8 years ago (http://forum.uniwar.com/posts/list/128.page), and the reply I quoted from that thread was from me, under my account name back then, The Dogalyst. I am simply trying to resurrecting the idea, making a better case for it this time.

But it is good that multiple people are thinking the same thing! It must be a good idea

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Jun 06, 2017 01:29

Jun 06, 2017 01:15

Subject: Re:Terrain Visibility

Little Omar

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simsverd wrote:
I love the idea.. but i dont think it will be done.

It will be a big rewrite and it will also complicate the game.

Glad you love it

Xavi doesn't seem to think the feature difficult. His comment on LkASr's thread last year:

xavi wrote:
I like these ideas a lot. There is a possibility that we implement them after testing and validating them. Before that, we will certainly adjust the vision of most units that currently see WAY TOO FAR!

simsverd wrote:
It will be a big rewrite and it will also complicate the game. For the common user (wich is the majority), uniwar is already very complex and hard to learn , and any changes to the game must be evaluated with that in mind...

It seems intuitive rather than complex to me. It works exactly like mobility. Let me highlight what I wrote in the proposal above:

Little Omar wrote:
It adds a strategy dimension to the game that is very intuitive. (The game today is a little bit too heavy on precision tactics. One wrong build decision on many maps dooms you).

Making Uniwar more about strategy and less dependent on precise moves and precise knowledge of minutia will make the game more accessible, not less. IMHO.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jun 06, 2017 01:29

Jun 06, 2017 01:27

Subject: Terrain Visibility

Little Omar

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wookieontheweb wrote:
Isn't this idea slightly derailed because of the undo problem? Especially now everyone has infinite undo. i.e. Move marine to mountain "oh look scary stuff, undo."

If that were true, then normal visibility limits and Fog of War would be entirely derailed, which they aren't.

So yes, undo allows you to see further than you should, but your vision is still limited. You use your marauder for long range scout-and-undo? Well, it's vision where-ever you send will be further limited by terrain visibility, So in fact, this actually reduces the problem created by unlimited undo!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jun 06, 2017 01:36

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