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only paid undo will work soon
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simsverd

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simsverd

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I think payed undo is not going away..

I think some free undo for all could make it a little less controversial.
For example, it could be possible to award free undo (or unicoins) for playing random games, tourney games or getting maps rated. Or possibly 1 or 2 free undo for each game as long as you are awailable to random games.
It would have to be done in such a way that there is more, not less incentive for players to support the game finacially... because further development and maintenance of the game rely on it being profitable.

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earth

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earth

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SIMS, If only paid undo, even with a few free undos, the game starts to favour those that have paid for feature.

As I have said previously I personally don't mind paying for feature when Button is moved, however I suspect that this goes against the fundemental not pay to win in that this is a feature you need to be competitive.

I have not found any player that disagrees in that turn redo is a significant capability to improve the outcomes of uniwar battle.

Cheers

EARTH
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legia

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legia

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  earth wrote:SIMS, If only paid undo, even with a few free undos, the game starts to favour those that have paid for feature.

As I have said previously I personally don't mind paying for feature when Button is moved, however I suspect that this goes against the fundemental not pay to win in that this is a feature you need to be competitive.

I have not found any player that disagrees in that turn redo is a significant capability to improve the outcomes of uniwar battle.

Cheers

EARTH

Good point. Undo is very important it needs to be paid as unlimited undo and somekind of free undo, maybe longer to relogin to undo moves but for free.

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drumstep

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drumstep

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  Michaelrn wrote:

I agree with all that. But the problem is, in order to scout, you have to send your high vision unit ahead. Of course a sane person will not send it full speed into the unknow, but just a few steps and it might end within the range of opponents scout unit (they have the same vision, so one must be seen if it wants to see the other), and you will not be aware of that because your vision is not updated. You moved to scout and yet you have no intel of the enemy's force to help you planing your moves. At opponent's next turn, he will be able to see your scout, thus he might be able to hit it, destroying your "eyes" and leaving you blind.


That would apply to your opponent too though. If all they can see is your single scout unit, it would be quite a risk to send in two or even three units to kill it without knowing what else is there. Even using heli or speeder move after attack couldn't hide the unit as long as you have another unit with decent vision behind your scout. Marauder could potentially hide, but it would take three marauders to take down one if you only use one attack each. And anyway, I think amidama is calling for vision to be updated at the end of your turn, not the beginning of your next turn as you seem to think. This means you could see the enemy as soon as you hit end turn so they can't hide, as well as use the turn replay to see what happened in the event your scout is killed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 29, 2016 22:00

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Michaelrn

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Michaelrn

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  drumstep wrote:
  Michaelrn wrote:

I agree with all that. But the problem is, in order to scout, you have to send your high vision unit ahead. Of course a sane person will not send it full speed into the unknow, but just a few steps and it might end within the range of opponents scout unit (they have the same vision, so one must be seen if it wants to see the other), and you will not be aware of that because your vision is not updated. You moved to scout and yet you have no intel of the enemy's force to help you planing your moves. At opponent's next turn, he will be able to see your scout, thus he might be able to hit it, destroying your "eyes" and leaving you blind.


That would apply to your opponent too though. If all they can see is your single scout unit, it would be quite a risk to send in two or even three units to kill it without knowing what else is there. Even using heli or speeder move after attack couldn't hide the unit as long as you have another unit with decent vision behind your scout. Marauder could potentially hide, but it would take three marauders to take down one if you only use one attack each. And anyway, I think amidama is calling for vision to be updated at the end of your turn, not the beginning of your next turn as you seem to think. This means you could see the enemy as soon as you hit end turn so they can't hide, as well as use the turn replay to see what happened in the event your scout is killed.



Long range unit could hit hard from the distance to easily kill the scout and stay in a safe position.

I know that the vision would be updated at the end of the turn and you would be able to see the surroundings briefily, but if the scout unit doesn't survive to the next round it is not of much use.
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Angkor

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Angkor

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Hello everyone,
So i hope we all agree for now that undo is a HUGE advantage over those who don't use it. Stopping an argument over this point is ridiculous.

I truly understand that the creators wants more money from players for game development and stuff. So you have 2 options:

1) allowing only ONE option: pay like 10 dolars or well, you'll never be as good, be poor and mediocre somewhere else dear player.
results - - whole lotta money from addicted ones, new players come less willingly, some players say bye because we're from all around the world and 10 dolars is not the same price everywhere for everyone.

2) making UNDO profitable, comfortable, but not necessary. U say people that there are some who won't pay even 1 dolar for a game. Yeah, there are as well bunch of people who will pay 20 dolars for only having their own rainbow titans with funny hats pictures. SO let's say undo is free, but takes around 20 seconds to load.
(-2) less seconds for a certain amount of UNI money, until INSTANT.
results - - MOAR money, from everyone, and even if someone doesn't pay, hey, there will be like 2 x more of us relating to option 1 after a year or two.
This is how most profitable apps work, let's not be too original where there's no need for it.

PS. I understand pay-to-win is not the target of the creators. Or am i wrong?
PS2. Funny how i noticed that majority of people who support ONLY paid option are the ones who already paid.

Peace
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simsverd

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simsverd

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  Angkor wrote:
2) making UNDO profitable, comfortable, but not necessary. U say people that there are some who won't pay even 1 dolar for a game. Yeah, there are as well bunch of people who will pay 20 dolars for only having their own rainbow titans with funny hats pictures. SO let's say undo is free, but takes around 20 seconds to load.

Interesting idea, but i would say 20 sek is way to low. I would suggest at least 6 hours. Then everbody would have the option and the ones willing to pay for it can do it at once.

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simsverd

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simsverd

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  Angkor wrote:
PS. I understand pay-to-win is not the target of the creators. Or am i wrong?
PS2. Funny how i noticed that majority of people who support ONLY paid option are the ones who already paid.

PS1: The devs/owners dont wont it to be pay-to-win. The devs position is that undo is not affecting the strenght of units and thus is not a "pay-to-win" feature. Undo feature does not make a player good.. But as long as it is a payed feature i belive that there should be ways to do it for free also (in a limited form).

PS2: yes.. funny.. equally funny how many non paying players that have strong opinions on development and features of the game they never owned

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Angkor

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Angkor

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  simsverd wrote:
Interesting idea, but i would say 20 sek is way to low. I would suggest at least 6 hours. Then everbody would have the option and the ones willing to pay for it can do it at once.

No i meant 20 secs of actual waiting, when you can't do anything else but to stare at the time loading line. Your option is problematic due to different times of a day when players make their move. Like you have 12 hours for a tournament game, but you wake up 6 in the morning and you have only 4 hours left. No undo then available? Unfair once more.

EDIT: Well well.. so if u keep saying it's not a pay-to-win feature, and partially irrevelant for a great players, so why is it the most expensive one at the moment?? As well, some greatest players like earth and Legia state different than you.

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simsverd

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simsverd

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people have different opinion... not all the top players have the same you know

I would say that the unfairness you describe is a small one for a free feature... There have to be a balance here and the game needs to be able to sustain itself finacially or the development will stop... wich sadly many ofc the "freeriders" dont care about when they make their arguments about fairness.

Ideas on how to undo in a way that is good for the community and also finacially for the game are most welcome

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EVR1022

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EVR1022

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@ Sims, Angkor -

This is an interesting idea. I agree that 20 sec is much too short, and that 6 hours is too long to be practical. I'd say 2 hours for a free undo seems fair. That would allow for up to 5 undos during a tournament turn. That's enough that it's no longer a pay-to-win feature, but still inconvenient enough to encourage purchasing the unlimited, instant undo. Also makes it possible to offer less expensive options. Say, $2 to reduce lag to 1 hour, $4 to cut it to 30 min, $6 to cut it to 15 min.

I do think it's important that there is some way to undo for free. It increases play level by 200-300 ratings point in my opinion.

Another possibility is offering a daily ration of undo tokens for free. Perhaps at midnight every night they would receive five undo tokens. This would have to be done in a way where they cannot save them up over time, just five total per day. Then, perhaps, players could buy the ability to increase that to 10 per day ($2), 15 per day ($4), 20 per day ($6), 25 per day ($8.), and unlimited ($10).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Mar 31, 2016 13:04

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Kondredd

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Kondredd

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  simsverd wrote:The devs position is that undo is not affecting the strenght of units and thus is not a "pay-to-win" feature.


It's not exactly true. The units' inflicted damage is determined at the beginning of turn and doesn't change after the turn reset. However, the damage is strictly related to the attack order, and I'm not talking about gang-up bonuses. A change in the attack order results in change in the parameters, e.g. from 3-3 even to 2-5. The player with the undo can "test" this order and find the best one, while the player without the undo have just one shot, which IS a significant handicap.
amidama

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Hakumen
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StarryBlink

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StarryBlink

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  simsverd wrote:

.... Ideas on how to undo in a way that is good for the community and also finacially for the game are most welcome


So I think adding 5-10 turns cooldown to the undo button is the optimal choice.

If you expect to play this game for years, buying an unlimited undo is still the most economic decision.

All players can correct their mistakes either by spending 2 unicoins to correct each mistake or paying hundreds at once and correct your mistakes for free forever.
Either way, developers get money to run this game.

But the use of unlimited undo for purposes other than correction, such as seeing behind fog of war or circumnavigating random factors, should be drastically reduced.

This will make all players stand at the same ground.
And bring the Fog Of War back alive & intimidating to all players.
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