Kroeger wrote:Thank you everyone for your input. It seems like we all agree that +1 or +2 G.L. would serve the Swarmer well. I will give Xavi my best recommendation on this.

I have a concern I would appreciate being discussed.

With added team play, I am noticing that mecha expansion is in many team maps is unstoppable. Currently, if you are playing team ranked and don't have a titan, I believe you will loose 33% immediately due to maps. Let's brainstorm a solution. The only solution I have heard that I like is to reduce the Mecha's sight while he is disabled. This would dramatically slow down the titans rate of expansion, right? This would also help cut down extra "undo exploration" from the titans. Please discuss pros and cons?

  Michaelrn wrote:I know that it was asked to use high level tournament games as examples to back up opinions. I will try to do that later, but by now I'm just expressing my opinions and explaining the reasons behind them.
I also think that Khraleans needs a little help in KvS matches. Marines can easily be very cost efffective against swarmers and garudas. Helicopters are powerful and can hide behind marines after attack.

If there are Forests/mountains for marines to get + attack/defense it becomes even harder to fight them. If you try using underlings to fight them back while benefiting from the same terrain bonuses, they will just get killed by helicopters with no chance to counterattack. Your second and third cheaper options to fight them (swarmes and garudas) will be very cost ineffective to fight a lot of marines with terrains bonuses (supported by helicopters). Pinzers can't cross mountains and become too vulnerable in forests. Wyrms are expensive and have to be well protected, but you can't protect them well in areas with lots of forests/mountains because of the reasons I just said. To help solving that problem, here are some initial ideas I had:

Option 1: + ground light attack to swarmer and - 1 aerial attack to marines. It will help a bit swarmers to kill marines and help both swarmes and garudas to receive a bit less damage. And I think that it is better than giving +2 gl to swarmer because it can hurt a bit the balance in KvT.

Option2: Change the cost of infectors to 200 and downgrade its repair bonus to X2. If sapiens player starts spamming lots of marines, infectors costing 200 can be much more interesting as a counter measure than it is at 300 credits. They can deal with marines while giving you units with aerial attack. Even if the infector dies, you will not get credit disadvantage if it converted at least one mariner (the opponent loses a 100 credits unit and you gain that 100 credits unit).

Option 3: Give underlings some aerial attack (ok, I don't think it is going to happen).

Option 4: A new ground light khralean unit with aerial attack.

Maybe even a mix of the options 1 and 2 could be nice, I'm not sure yet.

  LkASr wrote:

buy a Pinzer, Helicopters can't outright kill them and they have +2 repairs, it's only a matter of where to position them to block incoming saps

  Michaelrn wrote: 4 or 5 helicopter can kill a full health pinzer in 1 turn. Marines with terrain and gang up bonuses also can help with that.

  Michaelrn wrote:
.
4 or 5 helicopter can kill a full health pinzer in 1 turn. Marines with terrain and gang up bonuses also can help with that.

  LkASr wrote:

I doesn't really work that way most of the time. You see, Tanks, Pinzers, and Plasmas are designed to block (or parry) attacks from enemies, don't expect them to lead a charge with them (too slow), they're simply mobile walls for your squishier units. It's essential to any player's defense.

  drumstep wrote:
I would hope that would be the case! That's 2000-2500 credits against 450 credits.

  LkASr wrote:let's say Helicopters killed a few Pinzers, they'll encounter heavy counterattack after finishing off Pinzers, which can really hurt them more than you did.

  EVR1022 wrote:Khralaen vs Sapien remains a problem match up in my opinion. If you watch the Feb champ round 7 game between Fobos_rus and UniKZ, it's clear that the Khralaens simply have no chance of victory. Marines are just too strong, and the Khrals have no efficient way to take them down. Underlings get annihilated by helicopters. Swarmers don't do enough damage, and are very vulnerable to marines, marauders and helicopters. Garuda vs marines is laughably bad. That leaves the Pinzer and Wyrm, which are both relatively slow, unable to navigate terrain, and too expensive to be an effective countermeasure.

My proposed solutions:

Option A
Buff Swarmer defense +1 and ground light attack +2. This will enable two Swarmers (500c cost) to take down a marine in terrain most of the time. If necessary, the Swarmer could be debited elsewhere. Perhaps -1 aquatic, or -1 aerial (which might help KvK balance as the Garuda becomes a more viable option).

Option B
If it's not the Swarmer's job to kill marines, then it has to be the underling's. Buff ground light attack +2.

  Kroeger wrote:Thank you everyone for your input. It seems like we all agree that +1 or +2 G.L. would serve the Swarmer well. I will give Xavi my best recommendation on this.

I have a concern I would appreciate being discussed.

With added team play, I am noticing that mecha expansion is in many team maps is unstoppable. Currently, if you are playing team ranked and don't have a titan, I believe you will loose 33% immediately due to maps. Let's brainstorm a solution. The only solution I have heard that I like is to reduce the Mecha's sight while he is disabled. This would dramatically slow down the titans rate of expansion, right? This would also help cut down extra "undo exploration" from the titans. Please discuss pros and cons?