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Fuze is the new op unit
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dr. pepper

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dr. pepper

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  Duaneski wrote:
  Pento wrote:
  simsverd wrote:
  Pento wrote:I don't understand you! you all are pointing that the fuze is worth the money, when you know how to play it. OK
BUT pepper is saying that the Mantisse is far stronger than the fuze for only 50 credits more.
And there is absolutely no doubt that the Mantisse has far more value for the money than the fuze.
Mantisse can capture bases as well and gets the same bonuses on terrain, so fuze is not outstanding anyhow.

What is your point? Both units are situational.. its not (yet) possible from experience or "mathematichs" to say if the mantisse at 250 is a much better buy than fuze at 200 .... Time and use will tell.. and we will adjust accordingly..

You could use the same comparison between a 600 leviathan and 800 destroyer... wich is the better buy?


??? Read again carefully what I and pepper wrote and perhaps than you get our point.
And those units are not situational at all. Same class , same idea, same usage.


I don't think you read what Sims posted at all. He said they'll make adjustments as needed.

You guys pointed out all of the extra stats the mantisse gets for 50 credits more, but unless you're playing someone with JUST these units maybe it makes sense
to consider the other units the races have and how the races play against each other as well?

Is the marauder better than a speeder? (your answer should be: sometimes, yes.) ... well, sometimes, even with fewer stats, you're gonna rather have 5 Fuze than 4 mantisse, is my impression... (whether that means you have 450 credits and you can build Fuze and marauder and your opp has to choose... mantisse or speeder .. or something else ..)

Anyway..


The Marauder effectively has 24 mobility through its' ability to act twice compared to the speeder, which can only act once. Some of the marauder's weaker attack stats are compensated by the ability to move twice. You're making an apples to oranges comparison.

As I've stated before, the only edge the fuze has on the salamander is one additional range. The only edge the fuze has on the mantisse is that it's 50 units cheaper (and considerably weaker).
Pento

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Pento

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Just noticed: salamander can poison....
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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Dr Pepper

I am pointing out that in some situations a marauder is better than a speeder. Not all, but some.

I think the same is true for the mantisse and Fuze. It is possible the mantisse will see an upcoming nerf, but I don't think it needs a comparison to the fuze to justify that.

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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  Pento wrote:Just noticed: salamander can poison....


Sally ALSO poisons on hit (as long as it deals damage the sapien unit gets poison)
dr. pepper

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dr. pepper

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I noticed several of the posters in here have considerably higher ratings than I do and claim the Fuze is fine so I'm definitely listening here, but I haven't seen any explanations of what makes the Fuze so good.

I use the Fuze just like I would a Mantisse (except I realize it's pretty useless against air), and I have no problems effectively using a Mantisse. It just seems like the Fuze dies so quickly. I remember a couple games with reefs where I used some fuzes and they were ok. Problem is they die immediately if they take any damage.
Pento

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Pento

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  Duaneski wrote:
  Pento wrote:Just noticed: salamander can poison....


Sally ALSO poisons on hit (as long as it deals damage the sapien unit gets poison)


...But it's not tanky at all and costs 300. (Sally = scorpion?!)
Pento

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Pento

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  dr. pepper wrote:I noticed several of the posters in here have considerably higher ratings than I do and claim the Fuze is fine so I'm definitely listening here, but I haven't seen any explanations of what makes the Fuze so good.

I use the Fuze just like I would a Mantisse (except I realize it's pretty useless against air), and I have no problems effectively using a Mantisse. It just seems like the Fuze dies so quickly. I remember a couple games with reefs where I used some fuzes and they were ok. Problem is they die immediately if they take any damage.


But hardly anyone played that many matches like you.

I tried fuze now on several games. There are situations it is usable, but I absolutly prefer two Marines instead.

Recovery is too slow and/ or defense to low

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 08, 2017 08:31

Pento

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Pento

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OK, to be honest.... Again ... Fuze su**s.

One salamander can kill your whole army, for 200. You are just busy with recovery and separating your troops to get not infected. Counter attack gets difficult and defense weak. You need at least 2 attacks to get a Salamander down, so two more infected troops.

And on top the salamander always passes poison ( attack + defense) ;not like the scorpion only if you decide to use this feature.
This should be restricted to the option to poison a unit or to attack.

The balancing between the amphibian unit is not very equilibrated.
dr. pepper

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dr. pepper

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  Pento wrote:OK, to be honest.... Again ... Fuze su**s.

One salamander can kill your whole army, for 200. You are just busy with recovery and separating your troops to get not infected. Counter attack gets difficult and defense weak. You need at least 2 attacks to get a Salamander down, so two more infected troops.

And on top the salamander always passes poison ( attack + defense) ;not like the scorpion only if you decide to use this feature.
This should be restricted to the option to poison a unit or to attack.

The balancing between the amphibian unit is not very equilibrated.


That's pretty much exactly how I feel. Not only is it weak vs. the other amphibians, other units (specifically the marauder and marine) are better for the money. I really think it needs some type of additional mobility (2 actions, move after attack, increased repair, etc.) to compensate for its' weak attack and defense values (if that's the approach the devs want to take). Otherwise, it should see a boost in some attack values.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 08, 2017 16:49

dr. pepper

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dr. pepper

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Another point I wanted to make was that just because a high level player can use a unit effectively does not mean it's necessarily balanced. It might just mean that player is really good.
join wang

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join wang

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Can someone explain why salamander isn't range xavi said the amphibious units were ranged.
dr. pepper

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dr. pepper

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  Duaneski wrote:Dr Pepper

I am pointing out that in some situations a marauder is better than a speeder. Not all, but some.

I think the same is true for the mantisse and Fuze. It is possible the mantisse will see an upcoming nerf, but I don't think it needs a comparison to the fuze to justify that.



Not sure how a Fuze is ever better than a Mantisse considering it's either equal or worse in every possible statistic. The only thing you could logically say that makes any sense is that'd you'd prefer 5 Fuze to 4 Mantisse. There is literally not a SINGLE stat or ability the Fuze has that is better than the Mantisse. On the other hand, I do agree a Marauder can be better than a Speeder due to having 2 actions compared to the Speeder's one.

I'm not sure why you're struggling to see that this is an apples to oranges comparison.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 09, 2017 03:45

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StarryBlink

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StarryBlink

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  dr. pepper wrote:

Not sure how a Fuze is ever better than a Mantisse considering it's either equal or worse in every possible statistic. The only thing you could logically say that makes any sense is that'd you'd prefer 5 Fuze to 4 Mantisse. There is literally not a SINGLE stat or ability the Fuze has that is better than the Mantisse. On the other hand, I do agree a Marauder can be better than a Speeder due to having 2 actions compared to the Speeder's one.

I'm not sure why you're struggling to see that this is an apples to oranges comparison.



I agree with you. While we can't just compare stat between fuze and slamander.
Because their range are different. And the value of range can't calculate easily into stat.

But to compare fuze and manrise,
it's not difficult like the case of fuze vs salamander or marauder vs speeder.

Their range are the same, their number of action are the same.
If all other stats are the same, they'll be absolutely identical.
Then it's obvious that mantise is overpowered compare to fuze.
As all its stat are superior to fuze, with cost just 50 credit more.

I think mantise should be nerf a little.
Maybe reduce its mobility from 11 to 8.
Then it will match titan style of slow but strong.

Or increase its cost from 250 to 300.
And keep all its current stat.
To make is an expensive but solid titan-style unit.
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LkASr

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LkASr

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Fuze was great until its aerial power and mobility nerf. That patch quickly made it into power creep territory. It needs the mobility and some aerial power to be great even tho it already is

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dr. pepper

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dr. pepper

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As it stands now, you'd have to nerf the salamander and Mantisse to bring better balance between the three units. I think the Fuze should be buffed in a unique way to make it stand out against the others. I like move after attack personally.
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