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Ethics in a multiplayer game
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Solitary

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Solitary

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Not sure tbh as montevideo always seemed fairly balanced to me but iluvkim has such a ridiculous win rate that there must be something on it. I think it might just be tough for titans to defend all bases at the same time against khral as there no easy way of turtling up on that map, due to limited terrain. If I was guessing I'd say death by ants! I'm really looking forward to having the level editor update so I can remake some of the popular maps and make them actually good for competative play.

Yea, I'm going to try a few more games vs titans on that map and then test him out xD. If he declines against me then we'll know he's just after cheap wins .
asdf

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asdf

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Well, iluvkim might play alot of maps. I usually see him hosting on montevideo and harbor, but who know knows what maps he joins.
Solitary

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Solitary

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Have you seen his win/loss record? I'd guess from that and his colossally low average points per win that he probably only plays those maps xD. It's amazing he can be bothered! That said, it sometimes takes me up to five attempts hosting a map to get someone similar ranking to me to join it even if I put the minimum ranking I will play in the game name.

It's probably less annoying to just farm noobs!
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waxoid

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waxoid

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playing on Montevideo now, my Titans vs. Khral. Not death by ants... only my second time playing it, but Montevideo is a naval map first, because once you have a naval unit or two on your side no base captures are really possible. He's got Levis with Garuda guarding them in front, which is pretty nice, Hydros seem pretty allergic to Garuda (on a cost effective basis anyway). Land-bound Titans seem hard to play here, we'll see if Eclipses can help or not. I probably messed up building a walker, not very defensible on the peninsula, but should be able to eliminate some swarmers or what not trying to get to it. Standoff is still developing though. Looks like he's played this hundreds of times so my money would be on him.
Solitary

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Solitary

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You're playing iluvkim now?
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waxoid

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waxoid

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yes
Solitary

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Solitary

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Interesting, that's quite a slow kill! It sounds beatable on the face of it though but his tiny percentage of losses suggests it's very difficult if it is beatable xD. I would think mecha/walker with a few eclipses and assimilators should have decent odds against it, and just a slow advance?

Walker outranges the sea units so all you really need is to handle everything else while you stay out of range of the leviathans, surely :s.
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waxoid

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waxoid

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yeah, game is looking over, indeed the walker was too hard to protect on peninsula. Mechas are too flimsy for sure, if I were to try again I'd build more eclipses than I had before attempting a walker, amass more hydros in the backing ocean if possible. But mostly that's trying to brainstorm on how to set up a draw. Not super optimistic, I think there's a reason why he plays that map and has that win ratio.
Ultimately, like I said I think the core characteristics are naval map and garudas are effective against , so I think this is an interesting variant of the naval war problem. There's just not much room on the peninsula and he's amassing levis, garuda and swarmers. So he controls when to fully swarm you. You have hydronauts behind to retaliate but lots of Garuda will get through. Feel free to try and let me know how it goes...
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waxoid

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waxoid

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don't get me wrong, btw, he executes beautifully and knows the game well for sure, has played literally thousands of games so, so hats off to him. Others might try to run his book play and foul it up for sure. Not at all convinced Titans can win but it seems like a tightrope. I did ask him if he's ever surprised on these maps he knows well and he says he's surprised all the time.
Solitary

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Solitary

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To be fair you weren't planning that build from the start so it's hard to gauge really. I mean early game unless you rush him the leviathans are going to be useless as they won't be in range of anything and I disagree about more eclipses as you only need one hit from eclipse + one hit from mecha to take out most flying units. Consider that you can make three and a half mecha for every one garuda he makes and two and a half for every one swarmer and you only need a couple of units doing heavy damage to stay ahead. It's the same way I play against titans with saps although I've yet to master it xD.

That type build is all about efficiency though and you'd need to plan it and be going for it from the onset to pull it off I think.

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waxoid

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waxoid

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Just not a lot of room on the peninsula, so not much room to pile in the mechas, and you might end up wishing you had something tougher there when the wave of aerial plus levis crashes. The walker created a bit more room temporarily (Levis backed up a space) but then he churned more swarmers in response. Of course more eclipses would be at expense of something else (like 1 less hydro = 2 more eclipse). Yes, knowing the build plan from the beginning definitely would help.
Solitary

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Solitary

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I don't recall mentioning hydronauts in how I'd play against it xD. And swarmers really aren't that big a deal against mecha as the mecha are about tempo! They don't have to be tough because in order to get close enough to kill them with swarmers you also need to get into range of eclipse/walker and the mecha cost a lot less than the larger units. Don't forget that he needs to kill 2.5 mecha for every one swarmer of his you kill in order to stay even on cost, if he flies in and heavily damages two mecha with two swarmers then you are ahead on the exchange even if you only take out one swarmer and lose both mecha the next turn.

The turns he spends shooting down mecha are turns he doesn't spend hitting expensive units! That's what I mean by efficiency, you can't throw in 400 and 800 credit units here and there and talk about efficiency in the same sentence xD. If the plan is to outrange him with walkers then you have to economise and get the walkers in play before he mobs you with leviathans next to your own bases

I'm not saying it would definately work by any means, but I am saying if you pick a strategy then you've got to commit to it or you might just as well roll dice to decide what you're building in each base.
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waxoid

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waxoid

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Well, I follow man, I play plenty of Titans and have sent many mechas to their delightfully slow and tempo-disrupting deaths for the greater glory of the invading network. This situation here is very specific though, and my comments *were* in the context of having some hydros and contesting the sea/straits. And swarmers aren't going for mechas, it's more like Levis clearing mechas, swarmers landing on those hexes and hitting your walker(s), which is not such a great exchange as mecha vs. swarmer.

Sounds like you are interested in a more pure walker strategy against his build, which might be interesting – not sure how he would react, underlings can go for a fast capture once you've ceded the seas etc., it all depends whether you are building on peninsula or further north. Walkers will have to advance quite a bit before it/they can threaten to keep levis far enough back to threaten a base capture (your real threat probably being damaging levis or aerial that are forced to stop a base capture), and iluvkim's approach is to build up a lot of units and hit you hard at once, typically after you attempt one forward step too many with a walker.

Anyway, you don't have to convince me, which is useless, you have to beat him, and I still see him offering Montevideo so go for it. This small bit of education only cost me -1 ranking.

Now at 1951, not sure I like it though. Got booted twice trying to join games today. I see ichiro at 2400+ offering dead monk as Titans, I thought great to see a high-ranking Titans player on that map, I'll try an aggressive Khral and see how he beats me, but he just booted me, so I guess that's the plan against khral. Also tried to join some ~2000 guy's Hurtgen as titans, figuring it was a sap map (he was sap) but I haven't even played it against a human so I'd try it for fun, and got booted from that too...
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