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Idea to balance unit to make all unit attractive
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kikoho

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kikoho

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Hi

I think since tank buster and amphibian update, the game lost some variety. All tank unit can t be usefull for the cost and some match up are terribly boring to play because there is only one way to play it correctly in a classical map (80 % of tournament map)

titan vs titan : it is only speeder and some meccha. Other units are quite bad idea or only if the map is designed for. Eclipse plasma and so guardian are never build by top player. And walker and fuze are quite always punish by speeder easily and so not really played too....

titan vs sapiens : speeder meccha vs marauder marine booper ingenor . Other unit are quite rare. Once again, plasma and eclipse are never buy.

titan vs krak : principaly : speeder meccha vs underling swarmer . Eclipse are possible but it is hard to make it really effective.


Globaly, i think titan is the race that need the most to be change to avoid that we build speeder in quite every situation !!

Particulary Plasme need to be boost -> cost 450 ( the lake of mobility is a real pain again tank buster) Or increase mouvement ( but keep all race really different is a good idea)

Eclipse need help to being play against titan and sapiens but should stay quite same vs krak -> upgrade damage vs Groud heavy to 6



for the other race.
borfly is too strong against heavy -> should reduce damage to 4 or 3 . It will stay overpowered against GH for 200. Today the map control given by borfly is too big. You just can never let one speeder in his range or it is gg ...

Battery is quite never usefull for its cost -> 600 cost or even 550


I think krak are a little bit too strong in late game because of salamander vs sapiens and underling burrow vs titan. I think reduce by 1 the attack bonus given by resurface could be a good idea.


All this is only my personnal view. but i think i understand verywell this game






This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Jul 31, 2017 16:39

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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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Fwiw... I'm slowly (because it took me a long time to realize) seeing the same things in my games, especially as it relates to Titans.

As you said, unless the map specifically dictates otherwise ... it's mecha speeder until the cows come home.
Fleskimiso

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Fleskimiso

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Plasma and eclipse should be buffed.(Give'em more defense and make them cheaper)
Nerf tank buster units.
Give every artillery +1 range and give battery attack after move ability. For Wyrm I suggest better attack and defense.
Kohtar

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Kohtar

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(duplicate sorry)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Aug 01, 2017 23:09

Kohtar

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Kohtar

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Kikoho, I agree with most of your propositions except the reduction of the unburrow bonus: if it was reduced burrowing would become much less interesting which would decrease the gameplay variety IMHO.
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wookieontheweb

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wookieontheweb

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  kikoho wrote:
Battery is quite never usefull for its cost -> 600 cost or even 550


Even at my lowly level I've noticed that. Attack after move would probably do it for me.

I also like the idea of giving it the same 2 move option as marauder, leaving it as move after attack That'd definitely be worth 650, probably more ... it's never going to happen is it

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R3dRevenge

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R3dRevenge

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  kikoho wrote:Hi

I think since tank buster and amphibian update, the game lost some variety. All tank unit can t be usefull for the cost and some match up are terribly boring to play because there is only one way to play it correctly in a classical map (80 % of tournament map)

titan vs titan : it is only speeder and some meccha. Other units are quite bad idea or only if the map is designed for. Eclipse plasma and so guardian are never build by top player. And walker and fuze are quite always punish by speeder easily and so not really played too....

titan vs sapiens : speeder meccha vs marauder marine booper ingenor . Other unit are quite rare. Once again, plasma and eclipse are never buy.

titan vs krak : principaly : speeder meccha vs underling swarmer . Eclipse are possible but it is hard to make it really effective.


Globaly, i think titan is the race that need the most to be change to avoid that we build speeder in quite every situation !!

Particulary Plasme need to be boost -> cost 450 ( the lake of mobility is a real pain again tank buster) Or increase mouvement ( but keep all race really different is a good idea)

Eclipse need help to being play against titan and sapiens but should stay quite same vs krak -> upgrade damage vs Groud heavy to 6



for the other race.
borfly is too strong against heavy -> should reduce damage to 4 or 3 . It will stay overpowered against GH for 200. Today the map control given by borfly is too big. You just can never let one speeder in his range or it is gg ...

Battery is quite never usefull for its cost -> 600 cost or even 550


I think krak are a little bit too strong in late game because of salamander vs sapiens and underling burrow vs titan. I think reduce by 1 the attack bonus given by resurface could be a good idea.


All this is only my personnal view. but i think i understand verywell this game








Buff Eclipse to Repair X2.
Buff Plasma Tank to Repair X2.
Reduce Borfly LG damage by 1. They need heavy AA and heavy HG damage. Their LG is higher and lets them do a consistent ~3 damage to infantry. Reduce this.
Reduce Battery to 600 cost.

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LkASr

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LkASr

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Nah, Borfly's gl atk isn't that threatening, here are my suggestions:

+1 mobility for Tank (9 total)
+1 def for Pinzer (14 total)
+1 to mobility/def for Plasma (7 & 15 total respectively)

-50 credit cost to the artillery trio

Bring back 1 mobility to Fuze (10 total)
Trade 2 gl atk for 25% gl ap for Helicopter (10 gl atk <=> 25% gl ap total)*
Trade 1 atk to all units for +1 repair for Guardian
+1 gh atk for Mantisse (5 total)
-1 gh atk for Borfly (5 total)

In real life wars, countermeasure weapons are intended to limit the threat, but not eliminate it altogether, tho certain designs like to do so.

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Pento

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Pento

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Changes have to be done!!
There are lots of little things I would change, but I got the feeling nobody really cares about it.
Since three month now, lots of people are more or less "complaining" about the same things and nothing changed Why ?

charclo

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charclo

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I share Kikoho's opinion on the metagame : lack of diversity (specially as titan) since new units and khral being stronger in late game.

I would add :
- khral vs khral : still no diversity even with borfly, side vs side maps are even played more defensive
- Khral vs sap on small maps favors khral a lot as salamander has too much impact.

I believe tankbusters reduced the diversity but not amphibians as tankbustersremoved tanks and previous tank counters (wyrm, battery, walker).

I won't give any opinion on what changes could be made since I believe it's necessary to have a consensus on the problem first.
Pento

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Pento

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Perhaps there shouldn't be any adjustments of the abilities. Perhaps it would be just fine to adjust the price of the units.

There should be a statistic of the usage of the units.
If a unit is hardly used it seems to be too expensive for value, so the price should be a little lowered. As well the other way round. If another unit is extensively used it seems to be too cheap for value, means price should be raised.
Of course that wouldn't work with steps of 50 credits. That should be lowered to 25.

Example:
Battery is not used at all. Price gets lowered by 25. If after one month there is no difference in usage the price gets lowered again by 25.

Same with maruders. Right now it's the most used sapien unit. Price gets up by 25. After a month it will be checked again. If there is no significant change in the usage in favor to other units, price should be raised again by 25. If other units got more used. Price sticks to it's 275 credits.

Same with other units: examples:
Speeder +25
Ecplipse -25
After a month it will be checked if changes helped.

I think with the time units will be quite balanced without changing the unit itself.
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wookieontheweb

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wookieontheweb

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  Pento wrote:Perhaps there shouldn't be any adjustments of the abilities. Perhaps it would be just fine to adjust the price of the units.


I like the intent of this idea but I think it is harder to generate the usage stats for units than you are suggesting. I expect a marine to be produced very frequently because of their cost, but I don't think it is too cheap. Also I expect a hydronaught to be produced rarely but that does not mean that it should automatically be cheaper.

The real stat you want is the average damage a unit inflicts on the enemy for its cost and that stat includes player skill/style, map layout, unit abilities and cost.

Essentially all units should have the same damage inflicted per credit spent ratio.

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R3dRevenge

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R3dRevenge

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  LkASr wrote:Nah, Borfly's gl atk isn't that threatening, here are my suggestions:

+1 mobility for Tank (9 total)
+1 def for Pinzer (14 total)
+1 to mobility/def for Plasma (7 & 15 total respectively)

-50 credit cost to the artillery trio

Bring back 1 mobility to Fuze (10 total)
Trade 2 gl atk for 25% gl ap for Helicopter (10 gl atk <=> 25% gl ap total)*
Trade 1 atk to all units for +1 repair for Guardian
+1 gh atk for Mantisse (5 total)
-1 gh atk for Borfly (5 total)

In real life wars, countermeasure weapons are intended to limit the threat, but not eliminate it altogether, tho certain designs like to do so.


I don't like this. To many changes at once is how you imbalance the game.
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LkASr

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LkASr

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  R3dRevenge wrote:I don't like this. To many changes at once is how you imbalance the game.


We can always make a supertest with those changes, we can't just implement it right away

Never surrender when you still have the chance.
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LkASr

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LkASr

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Tb fair, we could grant some of us to be in charge of our own supertests determining which balances would suit the best

Never surrender when you still have the chance.
"I have achieved navel superiority" -myself 2017
All the good stuff [WoT Generals Beta Tester, Uniwar Beta Tester, Vainglory Hero Suggestions List Contributor]
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