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Titan need their plasma tank improved.
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StarryBlink

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StarryBlink

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Since the born of blasters, it seems like titan have a difficult time more than the other 2 races.
Especially in small maps it very hard for titan to win.
Unless you’re so obviously have a superior skill compare to your enemy.

And when look at the whole titan arsenal.
I think the unit that become problem is the plasma tank.
Because of blaster’s armor piercing bullets.
They make the plasma tank’s highest defense meaningless.

So I suggest change to plasma tank that should improve balance of the whole Uniwar.

1) Increase plasma tank’s mobility form 6 to 7.
Reason : this should improve its movement across sand or base.
While it still preserve its characteristic of slow but strong.
Since with 7 mobility it’s still slightly slower than tanks of the other 2 races.


2) +1 its attack stat. against ground heavy(11 to 12), ground light(10 to 11) and amphibian(10 to 11).
Reason : enable plasma tank to deal more damage to enemies.
Despite it may lose some HP from blaster’s shot.

Note that I don’t like solving this problem by increase plasma tank’s defense.
Since by doing that blasters will be the only practical way to kill plasma tank.

Nor to the idea of increasing plasma tank repair from 1 to 2.
Although it has a potential to solve this problem.
But it will make tanks of all races become identical.
Destroy the different styles of each race.
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simsverd

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simsverd

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We will give the tanks some love in next balanceupdate..

We want to have the tanks keep their differences.. but sometimes it must also be "practical".

For the plasma tank we have discussed movement, heal, defence and other stats - and we are currently leaning towards heal2, move +1, GH+1/2 (one of these or a combiantion).
Pinzer is probably fine as is.
We have discussed air attack for sap-tank, but will probably not do that because its more important to keep the uiqueness. I personally would have liked +1 move for sap-tank, but the others in the balanceteam dont agree

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StarryBlink

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StarryBlink

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Those ideas should be fine. Thanks for response.
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wookieontheweb

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wookieontheweb

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What about giving plasma a special ability of immune to armour piercing? Maybe that means a code change but still an option

It's in theme and makes it very unique

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simsverd

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simsverd

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  wookieontheweb wrote:What about giving plasma a special ability of immune to armour piercing? Maybe that means a code change but still an option
It's in theme and makes it very unique

It would require coding.. and will probably not be a realistic option as long as there are so many parameterers to change easily

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The Impaler

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The Impaler

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Hey Starryblink, thanks for the post. very well thoughtout and reasonable.

We have been giving the previous balance update a bit of time to settle to see if the ranged units are fine. The main reason being that walkers and plasma are a synergistic pair, so buffing either buffs the pair. It would be risky to buff the plasma very soon after the walker cost decreased.

That being said I think enough time has gone by, and I don't think anyone has really been complaining. There have been a few complaints but the ones I've seen have been able to be explained away with tips on how to defeat ranged units.

We will take your suggestions to heart and start up the discussion again.

We agree that the plasma needs some love, but we are just cautious, and don't want impenetrable walls of plasma with walkers behind, like we had in the past. In fact, the earlier balance update on the borfly was also an indirect buff for the plasma tanks too.




In response to Wookie, unfortunately making them immine to armor peircing would make them far too overpowered, in my opinion. It is also too many layers of complexity. if we wanted to reduce piercing to plasma, it would be better to reduce peircing of all blasters and increase their attacks a bit. We want to avoid too many "if" statements or exceptions to rules, if that makes sense. Its unnecessary complexity

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 13, 2018 14:15


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StarryBlink

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StarryBlink

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@Impaler. Thanks for opinions. I agree that if we want to buff plasma tank, we should do it just a little.

As I still remember the old days when my army stood against the impregnable wall of plasma tanks & walkers.
And there’s nothing I could do except waiting for a long boring cold & bitter defeat.

Actually, it’s better those previous days are gone now.
Only titan & plasma tank become a little too weak.

@ Wookie's idea. It also should fix the plasma tank.
But I think we can fix it without adding a more parameter to the game that is already complex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 14, 2018 15:29

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wookieontheweb

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wookieontheweb

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The reason I mention it is the damage details of the game are already too complex for my little brain so I ignore them. I simply rely on the in-game damage predictor and occasionally the UW damage calculator app (for when I want to know the chance of getting that kill to see if playing the RNG is worth it).

To me an extra option that fixes the plasma is fine as it just means my plasma has better defence. If you can fix it by tweaking the AP%, attack etc then as far as I know that's all exactly the same, but that seems more complicated to get right as it is affected by so many variables.

Then again getting SppokyHouse to make a code change is not trivial. Getting a response on the forum is pretty amazing!

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Hawaiian

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Hawaiian

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I think increasing plasma GH attack +2 is a good option because it better allows them to smash speeders and marauders (rightly so) but doesn't make them any more beefy so we won't return to wall and turtle playstyles. And for this buff to be used they must go on offense and give up any turtling positions. I vote for GH buff for plasma!
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LkASr

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LkASr

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I could agree with gh atk buff, they can really be threatening without the need for any other buff, tho I still perfer +1 mobility for it..

I'd still like a 9 mobility tank, since saps are a mobile race to begin with, plus it'd give a more fighting chance against spams.

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Pento

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Pento

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Titan tank needs speed +1 and GH attack +1. It takes ages to bring it to the front.
Sapien tank needs urgently air attack. Sapien is playing vs Khral with one possible unit less. There is absolutely no reason to build a tank vs Khral. Since Borfly appeared it's not even good enough for blocking.
Pinzer seems fine to me but perhaps GH +1 in case Sapien tank gets air attack because then Khral might need more pinzer and those should be effective vs sapien tank.
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Michaelrn

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Michaelrn

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  Pento wrote:Titan tank needs speed +1 and GH attack +1. It takes ages to bring it to the front.
Sapien tank needs urgently air attack. Sapien is playing vs Khral with one possible unit less. There is absolutely no reason to build a tank vs Khral. Since Borfly appeared it's not even good enough for blocking.
Pinzer seems fine to me but perhaps GH +1 in case Sapien tank gets air attack because then Khral might need more pinzer and those should be effective vs sapien tank.
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Those are exactly my thoughts
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Pero

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Pero

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Plasma tank badly needs +1 mobility. In 2 vs 2 random team games there is a number of maps with a base or two on chokepoint and they slow down plasma tank stupendously down. Especially when the base is friendly and owner wants to build units there. Plasma has to spend whole turn to hop on the base and another to move to a plain on the other side.

For me main deterrent from building plasma tanks is the price. But that's something which affect all units with a price greater than one turn income. Stats beside speed are fine.

About armor piercing resistance proposal, please no. I'm of opinion that it would be unnecessarily complex but I also think the same for existing armor piercing mechanic. Why was it necessary? With low values (less then 40%) it's not much different then having higher attack stat.
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simsverd

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simsverd

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  Pero wrote:Plasma tank badly needs +1 mobility.

i think this is an issue where main race-design will be the decider... the titans and especially the plasmatank have been communicated as montrous but slow... its in all descriptions and also the tutorial campaign
uniqueness , both in race and in the individual units of its class is important to keep...

i think GH +1 or 2, and/or heal2 would be a viable solution

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 25, 2018 16:02


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Pento

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Pento

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Heal +2 would be to much. It's still hard to kill a plasma but like that it would get crazy. Especially in combination with a healing unit.
In a game some days ago I needed 4 rounds to kill a plasma with a Bopper of ten and another one of 5 plus a Marauder for blocking and an engineer. I had no Forest or similar around just plain fields. But it was very hard.
If healing gets raised, defense should be lowered.

For me the main weaknesses is that plasma is too slow.
Perhaps a special feature like move +6 but only every 10 rounds.(turbo boost & super pursuit mode)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 25, 2018 16:24

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