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Map system
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AlSan

Messages: 3,
Joined: Feb 23, 2017,
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AlSan

Messages: 3,
Joined: Feb 23, 2017,
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Here I will publish (translation by Google and sometimes me) a letter I sent to Pashakа several months ago.
«My experience in the game is 1.5 years ... I want to offer some things:
At the moment I have no idea how you can achieve the perfect balance by changing the characteristics of the units. (Twisted in one place - got out in another). So I have a few proposals that are organizational in nature, and, in my opinion, will be able to make the UniWar better.
At first, where it is very necessary to restore order - it is the MAPS.
First of all, as Pashak has already voiced, you need to change the map rating system: like / dislike only after a person has played on this map (and at least 15 rounds); if the player has won and wants to “like” the map, then his voices (I think the current system of voice value of players with a different rating is more or less fair) is counted with a factor of 0.5, if he wants to “dislike” map, then with a coefficient of 1; if the person lost, then the “dislike” is 0.5, and the “likes” are 1.
Further, it would be very convenient if you look at the map and after clicking on the number of likes / dislikes a table 3 * 3 pops up with details on match-ups: sap-sap, sap-khral, etc.
Now GLOBAL IDEA. I have two options, the first is less radical, but not so interesting, the second is more complicated, but the effect from it may be the best:
1) introduce a new category of "TOURNAMENT" maps, they will not fall into the rating games. There are maps in which one of the players (one of the races in a pair) has a significant advantage and therefore should not be allowed for individual random games on the rating. However, the maps themselves are very interesting, when you play two matches at the same time (tournament format with mirror battles), they like (after tournaments), they become rating ones, then they do not agree, etc. (For example, in my profile there are maps). Therefore, for such maps, you must enter a separate category TOURNAMENT MAPS".
2) create a pool of the best maps for rating games (like, for example, in starcraft). Add to it the most honest and balanced maps, pieces of 50, for example, (although the number can be from 30 to 100). And all the individual games on the rating of conduct ONLY ON THEM. Then every month to rotate, the worst (estimated for the last month / six months) to remove, and instead of them to take non-rated with a large number of likes.
AlSan

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Joined: Feb 23, 2017,
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AlSan

Messages: 3,
Joined: Feb 23, 2017,
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I hope that the game development team is not a secret that the univar is currently drowning in an insane amount of maps of bad quality (defective maps from bad creators who spend 2-3 minutes of their lives and “dig up hexes from bald ones” (it is hard to translate from russian), and then players waste time on these maps).
I don’t in any way want to destroy the “creative things” of the main masses of mapmakers, but I am firmly convinced that the game just needs a FILTER OF THE MAPS for a normal fair and interesting rating game.»
The Impaler

Messages: 147,
Joined: Jun 07, 2017,
Location: 221B Baker St.
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The Impaler

Messages: 147,
Joined: Jun 07, 2017,
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Hello! Thank you for your well thought out post.

If anything I say is confusing, or doesn't translate to russian very well, please ask me to say it a different way.

We have considered a number of ideas with respect to the map pool, and its an ongoing process. The porblem with having a select few people choose what maps go into the ranked pool is: 1. Who is on that team? 2. maybe a lot of players will disagree with the map choices. 3. mapmakers will feel they have no agency in getting their maps ranked. 4. that is too much work for humans to do manually, the goal is to create an automated system that does the work for us, but automated systems can always be abused.

I agree that maybe a minimum of 15 rounds to vote should be added, but players could still just end their turn 15x without playing a move, then draw and then vote. it's hard to stop people from breaking the system.


As a side note, I am not a fan of horribly unbalanced maps used in tournaments. I like the opportunity to win both games... playing games that are inevitable losses are not fun for me.

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simsverd

Messages: 921,
Joined: Dec 02, 2010,
Location: Bergen, Norway
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simsverd

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thx for your input. balance team is not a secret, as i told you on PM and also can be found in the post about balance changes.

Regarding how maps get into the rated pool...
I believe very strongly that this has to be an automated process. I dont believe a manual evaluation of individual maps by a team of players to be a viable and robust solution... it just wont be practical over time and scale very poorly with the 10.000+ maps made by players over the years.
An automatic process will obviously have its flaws and will probably never be perfect for all maps/situations... but it will be good enough.
That said, we are always interested in making things better..

In the latest months we have:
- added higher value for upvote on loss and downvote on win (x1,5)
- disregard votes from players that have not played the map
- only make the last 200 votes count (will be done gradually as soon as the map gets a new vote)

I very much disagree with your suggestion on having tourney maps as a separate type of maps... i think tourney play and normal play should be as equal as possible, and it will be confusing to new players with different types of maps... I really cant see any benefit for this.
Just think of how to admin this.. can we make a player made map "tourney" without his consent? (as it would no longer be in the normel rated pool)....
I would much rather accept maps in tourneys that are good but not always perfectly balanced - as long as we extend tourney time in all rounds and use mirror games in all 1:1 tourneys, except perhaps in "round-robin"(group stages).

Alsan: Soon we will have (many?) players that make custom tourneys... Perhaps you or others that share your position on maps would like to be tourney manager for custom tourneys?

Moderator of gamechat and forum. Tourney admin.

Send me a PM here or invite me to a game if you want to ask me something, suggest a map for tourney or just wanna play a game
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AlSan

Messages: 3,
Joined: Feb 23, 2017,
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AlSan

Messages: 3,
Joined: Feb 23, 2017,
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I think the first rating pool of maps can be created by choosing of top players. For example, every of best 10 from rating ladder and 10 best championship's ladder players offer some number (from 3 to 5) of his favourite and the most balanced from his point of viev map. Then the balance team decides what size of pool is usefull (the first approximation): 100, 150 or 200. And then there is a rotation, which will be going by automatically process every 1/2/3/6 month. The principle of rotation will based on counting votes of players. For this rating will be very usefull "- only make the last 200 votes count (will be done gradually as soon as the map gets a new vote)".
About "Regarding how maps get into the rated pool... ": it is difficult quastion, but at first time it possible to leave it like it happens right now: the player creates a map, then he plays on it several games, then voting and then several number of best unrating maps get in rating pool after moderating.
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