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luis91

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luis91

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part 2 of my post which seems to be too long ^^


and i think playing fast should be favored/supported more by the system than playing slow!


I am looking forward to your opinions on the topic!
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simsverd

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simsverd

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i have been at this solution before... making automatically decided games less worth than those that finish normal..

The problem is ... it only shift the side of who has to gain on slow play...

With your current suggestion it would be your team that would play for time having all to gain by not letting the game finish.

Thats why i so far have landed on this solution:
- 12 hr turns to force as many moves as possible
- start turn 12 or 24 hrs (it is 48 now for first 2 players)
- explore possbility of a chess timer / timebank - system , see earlier in this thread

The other solution will ofc be to prolong whenever a player/team ask for it, wich can be done in some tourneys and stages, but not all the time and not indefinately. Later when the tourney admin have access to the tourney in the app, it would be easier to prolong

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luis91

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luis91

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well i see that point.
But i think in the current situation some player start slow playing from the first turn! Because its overall advantageous to play slow, you can play slow from the beginning, whether you are ahead or not and whether you think you are gonna win that game or not and anway playing like that is giving you an advantage.

When its the other way, you will play fast at the beginning ( because its not clear whether you are winning or not! ) and when you realise, that the game is probably not turning into your favor, you start playing slow, but at that moment you already played a lot of rounds.
So i think with my solution the first rounds would be faster/ slow play would not make sense in the early game and therefore the game itself would end in less days as well!


But a more thoughtfull solution with time banks/timer does sound even better, when its realizable!
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legia

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legia

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Hi lusi91, thanks for joining to this topic.
As you said:
  luis91 wrote:When its the other way, you will play fast at the beginning ( because its not clear whether you are winning or not! ) and when you realise, that the game is probably not turning into your favor, you start playing slow, but at that moment you already played a lot of rounds.


This not solve the problem.
Now you play fast or slow at the beggining? It thasn't matter if you promote fast winner or slow winner it still creates a situation that same games you will try to play fast and other try play slower.
Now it's good for winning side to play slow.
With your suggestion the loosing side will try play slower to create situation that game will not end on time.

In this tourney in match that we have lost one of us was busy and missed his time 12 hours to make his move on first round. He wasn't skipped but removed from the game it was very bad for us, 3 vs 4 it was sure that we will loose. Opposit team don't want sign peace. The rules were very strict for us but on other two games they give us hope - we had no choice but TIME manage. Time caused our defeat but also time could give as win in the group.
All this was made within RULES of the tournament. I know that wasn't nice but in accordance with the principles.

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luis91

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luis91

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i dont say that you did anything against the rules.
I just try to change the rules so that they are better!

And i am playing fast all the time, because i dont want to win a tourney round, because of "time management", but you did play slow from the beginning of the game and i realised that many more people do it like that ( i already had an opponent who did wait to the last hour in the first turn. So we missed the first two days of the tourney round! ).
So it would at least speed up the beginning until one side is in disadvantage, but the first few rounds ( until one side got an advantage ) would be played faster and therefore increasing the chance to finish the game in time!
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xavi

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xavi

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A lot of players have been asking how are the tournaments seeded. There are 2 algorithms.
1) RANDOM: where each position are assigned randomly. This is usually used in team tournaments and solo tournaments open to anyone.
2) BY_SCORE: this one uses the simple recursive method below:


Here is the result for 16 players:
http://www.uniwar.com/tournaments/seeding/16players.txt

Here is the result for 256 players:
http://www.uniwar.com/tournaments/seeding/256players.txt

When the number of players is not a power of 2 then the bracket tree becomes unbalanced causing some possible mismatch within the top players.
Here is an example with 391 players, similar to the September Solo Tournament.
http://www.uniwar.com/tournaments/seeding/391players.txt

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Sep 19, 2015 00:04


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unikz

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unikz

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my suggestion for championship tourney is to limited the seats to 256 and 16 seeded

in the past few tourneys, i see many players actually surrendered or kicked in round 1 of tourney. Championship should be more serious than the other tourneys.

finally, make my points clear,as long as i m not playing Fobos too early, i m fine. lol (Joke)
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legia

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legia

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My sugestion is to start playing equally both rounds. When player 1 ends his round his move is hidden until player 2 will make his move. After both players made move in the same turn the game ends both turns and all moves are revealed.
Benefits:
1) faster games - players will not wait until opponent move because all players would like to now their opponent strategy for map. Now it's better to move after your opponent show his move and each turn is moving very slow.
2) equall round count for both games so no one is playing on time and delaying.

Xavi is it possible to implement delay of ending turn until in both games players will end turns? Turn end would be saved on server and player couldn't change their moves after ending turn.

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xavi

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xavi

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1) This would change the game a bit because when 2 units goes on the same hex. A fight to the death would occur... what if 2 engineers reaches the same hex? How to solve these? There are several open questions...
2) Yes, It is planned to count the same amount of turn for both players.
3) Yes, It's possible to implement delay.

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legia

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legia

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Xavi No. My idea is only for tournaments mirror games.
Equal moving not in one game but in both games .
For example :
You start new tournament game as blue (game 1) and as red (game 2). When you end turn in game 1 your move is hide for your opponent until he will end turn in game 2. Only when both blue players will end turn the game reveals moves and red players can move.

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simsverd

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simsverd

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Summary on ideas to improve official tourneys:

1. Change duration of round: 14 days each round. Multiplied by 2-3-4 in team tourneys
2. Change rules on when time can be prolonged: only in finals (quarter-, semi- and grand finals - on request of a player)
3. 1st turn should be 1 day, not 2 days as sometimes is the case still
4. Keep mirror games in "sync", by not allowing more than 1 round more or less than the mirror game.
5. Automatic skip. Either when time runs out or after some more hours, for example 4 hours beyond limit
6. Last finished round of both parties in an unfinished game is counting (players/teams ends have result with equal amount of rounds)
7. Change tiebreaker rule : add highest number of captured bases total as the first decider (1. captured bases total, 2. least rds in won games, 3. kill/loss, 4 random). (requrement for this rule: surrender in a game will remove the captured bases count. Othervise a player can just surrender the other game if he gets an extra base in one of the games)
8. Implement new incentives to play faster - chess timer /timebank or similar

The first 3 is easy to do since they are only adjustments of the rules.

Btw, the tourney admin can now change maps and dates of a running tourney from the app, and also other parameters of an unstarted tourney !
Currently there is only one tourney admin (me)... but there will be others some time in the future

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 07, 2015 21:51


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GOUT

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GOUT

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These all seem like good ideas but they will be most effective if they are all implemented together. For example, #4 is better than what we have now, but 1 round (or really half a round) is all you need to get the games out of sync and win on time. However, #4 would work much better with #7 etc. though it still wouldn't solve all problems. I'm curious if others have more suggestions that would work in tandem with this list. Also I would really like to see Legia's idea from above implemented. If moves were hidden, at least for the first couple of rounds, until both players submitted their moves it would prevent players copying each other's openings and probably lead to quicker starts to games.
Needle

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Needle

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As for 7 (Change tiebreaker rule): This feature can be misused by surrendering before the opponent captures your base (and after that capturing his bases in the other game). Therefore I suggest to consider surrendering as losing all your bases to the opponent.
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simsverd

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simsverd

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  Needle wrote:As for 7 (Change tiebreaker rule): This feature can be misused by surrendering before the opponent captures your base (and after that capturing his bases in the other game). Therefore I suggest to consider surrendering as losing all your bases to the opponent.

Good point

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simsverd

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simsverd

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Update! The following changes will be applied to tourneys:

Will be handled by the tourney admin :
- start of round is 1 day (also on team tourneys)
- team tourneys will have 2, 3, and 4 * the time a 1:1 tourney for each round (20, 30 and 40 days)
- all tourney finals can be prolonged as much as needed on request of a player no later than 48 hours before round end (quarter- semi- and grand finals)
- tourneys can also be prolonged by unforeseen events (disruption of service etc)

Technical change :
- equal rounds counting if games are unfinished when time runs out (equal for 1:1, and in pair for teams - equal amount for each team)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Jan 05, 2016 17:05


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