Should the damage formula be a secret?

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Should the damage formula be a secret?
Yes, the mystery is part of the fun.	21%	[ 7 ]
No, I want to use strategy to play- not guesses.	68%	[ 23 ]
I don't care.	12%	[ 4 ]
Total Votes : 34

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Sep 14, 2009 20:01

Subject: Should the damage formula be a secret?

ahbritto

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The damage formula is current a mystery, but should it be?

Sep 15, 2009 05:26

Subject: Re:Should the damage formula be a secret?

tecknodragon

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I don't want to win or lose because of luck. It really annoying when someone gets way more damage on me than they should have because of the random generator. And it feels like a unfair win when I do far better in a attack than I should have. It simply should not be a random factor. I like to think of the skein like a really complicated game of chest.

People that play the game had a good idea of the calculation. People that are new to the game are clueless. This is a hindrance to people getting into the game.

Sep 15, 2009 08:58

Subject: Should the damage formula be a secret?

Anonymous

maybe they should make it as one of the options when setting up a new match and show it on the info page.

also add it to the filter so people can search whether they want to see games with the random factor or not. i don't know how the filter will work in v1.0.5 but i'm looking forward to not having to flip and scroll through 20 pages to find the game i want.

Sep 16, 2009 00:26

Subject: Re:Should the damage formula be a secret?

rolando

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Location: California, USA
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Many players have asked for this so here it is!

First, the variables:

A = Attack strength of the attacking unit
Ta = Terrain modifier for the attacking unit
D = Defense strength of the defending unit
Td = Terrain modifer for the defending unit
B = Gang up bonus
H = The attacking unit's health points.

Next, the formula:
p = 0.05 * (((A + Ta) - (D + Td)) + B) + 0.5
if p < 0 then p = 0
if p > 1 then p = 1

This is how to figure out the damage:
1. Pick one unit to be the attacker and the other to be the defender.
2. Use the formula above to obtain p.
3. Take H and multiply by 6. This is the number of random numbers (r) generated between 0 and 1. For every r < p a hit is counted.
4. The total number of hits divided by 6 is the number of damage the defending unit will receive.
5. Switch roles between the units (attacker becomes the defender and vice versa).
6. Use the same formula above.
7. Once both units have attacked the damage points are calculated into their health points.

I will use a quick example:
Underling vs Marauder both on Plains
If you use the formula you see that the Underling has a 30% probability of dealing damage for each of its health points whereas the Marauder has a 75% probability of dealing damage for each of its health points.

If the Underling were on a Mountain though, the numbers change to 40% for the Underling and 55% for the Marauder.

That's it!

The UniWar Team

Sep 16, 2009 00:33

Subject: Should the damage formula be a secret?

Hachiman

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Thanks rolando!

4. The total number of hits divided by 6 is the number of damage the defending unit will receive.

Would you mind saying if this number is rounded up or down?

Also, would you mind explaining why the random factor in attacks seems to be the same for all attacks in a particular turn? For example if I attack a 10 Health Helicopter with a 10 Health Swarmer in a round and do 2 damage, then it seems that every time I attack a 10 Health Helicopter with a 10 Health Swarmer that turn, it will do the same amount of damage. But the next turn the attack might do 1 damage (or 3) for the whole turn.

I don't understand how this could happen with the formula you describe above.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 16, 2009 13:25

Sep 16, 2009 13:58

Subject: Should the damage formula be a secret?

rolando

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Hachiman wrote:
Also, would you mind explaining why the random factor in attacks seems to be the same for all attacks in a particular turn? For example if I attack a 10 Health Helicopter with a 10 Health Swarmer in a round and do 2 damage, then it seems that every time I attack a 10 Health Helicopter with a 10 Health Swarmer that turn, it will do the same amount of damage. But the next turn the attack might do 1 damage (or 3) for the whole turn.

Someone else figured that out a while ago (I believe that credit goes to lion37). We fixed this in version 1.0.5. We are requesting everyone update when the version is released. Shortly after the server will no longer allow the older versions to go online.

As far as the rounding, I will let you know soon.

Sep 18, 2009 15:36

Subject: Should the damage formula be a secret?

rolando

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Location: California, USA
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Hachiman wrote:
Would you mind saying if this number is rounded up or down?

It is rounded down.

Jul 08, 2010 00:16

Subject: Re:Should the damage formula be a secret?

Sphink

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Joined: Dec 22, 2009,
Location: USA, Arkansas
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Wooo!

Good luck, Have fun!

My biased opinions are open-minded.
-Sphink

Jul 08, 2010 06:09

Subject: Re:Should the damage formula be a secret?

Nicko

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I may be late, but WOO indeed. How come I didn't see that?

"I hate the world's population, it's too large and getting larger. People need to slow down on the sex!"
-00101101

Wandering...

Jul 08, 2010 06:41

Subject: Re:Should the damage formula be a secret?

MuRLoCk

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no it shouldn't be, i want to be able to know what i'm doing. XD

you scruffy lookin' nerf herder.

help mr.green take over the world! copy and paste this in your sig to help him gain world domination!!!!

Aug 27, 2010 14:54

Subject: Re:Should the damage formula be a secret?

waxoid

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Location: Seattle, WA
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Two questions here:
- How is rounding handled? (After dividing by 6, if the formula comes out to 8.73, the damage delivered is what?) I ask because my first take at doing this in Excel suggests a Battery should do 9 damage to an Assimilator on mountain most of the time (because p = 0.9), but in quick tests in game I see 8 damage pretty frequently; rounding by truncation could be one answer to the discrepancy. (A bug in my script could be another.

- Clarification on gang-up: the wording is a bit ambiguous; if my first hit is with a unit on one side, and the second with a unit on the exact opposite side, does that 2nd attack get +3 gang-up? Or do there have to be additional hits imbetween?
thx

Sep 08, 2010 23:09

Subject: Re:Should the damage formula be a secret?

waxoid

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Sorry, I see the rounding question was answered above. I've built a spreadsheet that runs trials and estimates hit values/probabilities. If you want it leave me a private note and I'll try to check and figure out how to share.

Any regulars know the answer to the gang-up question I asked here? I haven't tried to test that...

Sep 16, 2010 09:57

Subject: Re:Should the damage formula be a secret?

kralux

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Joined: Jun 01, 2009,
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The second attack should get the +3 gang-up bonus i think...

Oct 12, 2010 08:39

Subject: Re:Should the damage formula be a secret?

waxoid

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thanks Kralux. Just saw this, I actually went and experimented to confirm and yes, if you first hit on one side, then on the opposite, the gang-up bonus is immediately +3 (you do not need any intermediate hits). If you then hit from the hex right next to the second hit, the bonus appears to be +1 (rather than +2 relative to the first hit). In other words, the gang-up bonus appears to be calculated relative to the immediately previous hit.

Also, per discussion on another thread, I confirmed that underlings are +6 resurface bonus not +3. Which means at 6+6 against ground light they are in the top tier with helis, pinzers, batteries and hydronauts (all 12 before terrain or gang-up bonuses), meaning for example they get guaranteed 1-hit kill of healer units on bases (as well as plains/desert/swamp, where most other heavy units (plasma/tank/walker/eclipse/ma rauder/speeder) at 10 vs. g. light can also 1-hit healers.)

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