heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

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Sep 17, 2009 15:02

Subject: heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

draka

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since the heli was nerfed i think the game has become much more even, but i feel although saps are great alrounders but when u know how to fight the helis they are to expensive for what u get, i rarely use them now, except against kharelians where u often have no choice, but since thier toughness has been reduced they take to much damage i have seen 2 swarmers reduce a heli from 10 to 3 in one round without taking any damage, what other options do saps have when fighting in opponents half of the field, maruaders are only good against light, tanks take to long and batterys dont quite have the range (cant move and fire and have less range than walkers)

saps main advantage has always been to hit hard and early but they have nothing now with the staying power to do that.

I say remove the origional nerf for them repairing at +2 instead of thier current +1, this would mean they can still be killed more easily than before but have a little more staying power.

now dont get me wrong saps can still be good, but TBH i rarely choose them now because i know what works on most maps and saps usually dont unless thier is a lot of open ground or woods

Sep 18, 2009 11:56

Subject: heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

Anonymous

saps still do ok on maps with good coverage, like jungle. good troop/heli combo can do a lot of damage to khraleans. might be good to lower cost of heli to 450 though.

sapiens do have a hard time against titans now since the engineer nerf. engineers are really only good for stealing mechas now. titan tanks kill sapien tanks easy.

someone suggested in another thread that the battery should be allowed to move after attacking (similar to heli). i think that would make the sapiens a little more formidable against a titan tank blockade and khralean swarmer spam.

Sep 18, 2009 21:10

Subject: Re:heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

Synozeer

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Garudas and helicopters now do even damage to each other, even though the helicopter costs 150 more. While it gets a better attack/defense against most other units and can move 2 after hitting, I think now it's a bit overpriced. I would suggest that it at least do 1 more damage to a garuda than it takes, or lower the cost to 450.

Sep 19, 2009 12:14

Subject: Re:heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

Star Driven

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I like the 450 idea. And against Garudas, with both at equal health, the normal is that the copter deals one more damage than it takes. Which is hardly useful since the garuda repairs by 2.

-= The UniWar Team =-

Sep 19, 2009 19:11

Subject: Re:heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

draka

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well i am glad everyone agrees that saps, especiallly heli's are to weak now, the question appears to be what the best change would be as it should only be a very small one

so far the options seem to be

1. heli costs 450 credits

2. heli has higher attack (namely against garuda)

3. heli repairs +2 instead of +1 (this would be my choice)

maybe we should start a poll any more opinions ?

Sep 20, 2009 00:46

Subject: Re:heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

lion37

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Synozeer wrote: Garudas and helicopters now do even damage to each other, even though the helicopter costs 150 more.

That is not true. Heli's have a higher defense strength so they take less damage.

Sep 20, 2009 00:51

Subject: Re:heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

lion37

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draka wrote: well i am glad everyone agrees that saps, especiallly heli's are to weak now, the question appears to be what the best change would be as it should only be a very small one

Hi Draka,

I think this is an interesting discussion and thank you for bringing it up, but not everyone agrees that Sap's are too weak now. It seems to me that Saps and Khrals are about even now, with some maps favoring one over the other. The Saps can bring in Marines to the air battle while Khrals cannot, so it seems reasonable that Garudas + Swarmers should be at least equal in battle vs. Heli's.

Whenever I play Khrals vs. Saps, my opponents always bring in a ton of Marines + some Marauders. I can only use Garudas and Swarmers since all the other Khral units are useless against the Heli's.

Sep 20, 2009 05:48

Subject: Re:heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

Hachiman

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Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
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I just think that the Swarmer is a bit too good against Saps, and should be toned down a little, that's all.

But I'm still testing that out with a few different people to see what Saps can do against it, and if we're really right about that.

If there is a change, it shouldn't be too drastic.

Sep 20, 2009 19:59

Subject: Re:heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

Synozeer

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lion37 wrote:

Synozeer wrote: Garudas and helicopters now do even damage to each other, even though the helicopter costs 150 more.

That is not true. Heli's have a higher defense strength so they take less damage.

That may be the case, but I can't remember a single time in my games where the damage these two units do differed against each other - they've always done equal damage when their health is equal.

Sep 20, 2009 20:00

Subject: Re:heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

Synozeer

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Synozeer wrote:

lion37 wrote:

Synozeer wrote: Garudas and helicopters now do even damage to each other, even though the helicopter costs 150 more.

That is not true. Heli's have a higher defense strength so they take less damage.

That may be the case, but I can't remember a single time in my games where the damage these two units do differed against each other - they've always done equal damage when their health is equal. The difference is so small that it makes little to no difference/impact.

Sep 21, 2009 02:05

Subject: heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

Hachiman

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According to the formula rolando gave out a 10 health Garuda should average 4.5 damage to a Heli, but a 10 health Heli should average 5.5 damage to a Garuda.

This is significant, since two Heli's are more likely to kill a Garuda in a single turn than vice versa.

However, it is less significant than it used to be, because I think two Garuda will often kill a Heli now anyway, due to the gang up bonus. I don't know how the random number bug affects this either, we'll have to see with v1.05.

Sep 21, 2009 04:03

Subject: heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

Anonymous

Still

Helicopters can move after attacking, don't think that isn't a really big strategic advantage

Marines are cheap and devastating vs. Garudas and any smart Sapien player will be using them as well

These arguments drive me nuts because it's not unit vs unit, it's a lot of factors you have to look at.

It's possible it's unbalanced but you have to look at the big picture and I still see Sapiens being equal or better to Khraleans all things considered

Sep 21, 2009 09:43

Subject: Re:heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

aLoN

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Joined: Jun 12, 2009,
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heli cost more, i don't see a reason to compare between the tow...

i find sapiens very strong and fast if you use them right, they are good for sneaky attacks and messing with the enemy from all directions. also the battery has a longer range then all khrals units.
i still find it challenging to play khrals after the nerf, and it's all ways a hard game between the tow.
if they will nerf the swarmer ground heavy and Ariel attack by 1 it will balance the game more on my opinion, what do you guys think..?

Sep 21, 2009 11:39

Subject: Re:heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

Hachiman

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aLoN wrote:
if they will nerf the swarmer ground heavy and Ariel attack by 1 it will balance the game more on my opinion, what do you guys think..?

I thought similar until you just taught me a lesson on Dead Monk with your Marines vs my Swarmers ...

Now I don't think it's such an issue anymore!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 21, 2009 11:40

Sep 28, 2009 13:55

Subject: Re:heli nerf - sapiens are weak to often

Anonymous

interesting the talk of garuda vs heli, i think the key point in the argument there is that u can buy almost 3 garudas for 2 heli's. i think more interesting is that now a full health heli will often take -2 from a swarmer this only used to happen when the heli had a dramatically reduced health, so 3x swarmer attack will make a heli ineffective and yet can only recover 1 health per round.

this issue also applies against the titans as an eclipse can now do up 8 (with good random factors) damage against a healthy heli as can the walker with a measly 1 health recovery per round this can really put u out of the game from one bad round even if the heli's are not the core of your army.

i hope admin is listening and can help.

i still think restore the +2 repair to heli's is the way to go

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