| Would you like balancing changes to be put into effect? |
| Yes. |
 
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63% |
[ 12 ] |
| No. |
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21% |
[ 4 ] |
| Yes, these ideas are awesome, and I'd love to have very balanced uniwar! |
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16% |
[ 3 ] |
| Total Votes : 19 |
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![[Avatar]](/images/avatar/885b2c7a6deb4fea10f319c4ce993e02.jpg)
StarryBlink
Messages: 184,
Joined: Jan 04, 2012,
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StarryBlink
Messages: 184,
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About Waxoid's Battery +1 ground heavy attack and move after attack mobility to 6 :
It may help kill plasma tank easier. But it still doesn't help against walkers.
Increasing ground heavy attack is useless when walkers are out of range.
For sapien players. The only way to kill walkers by batteries is to gang 2 batteries on 1 walker.
Thus I think the simple and the best way to improve batteries against titan is just reducing batteries price.
About sapien's tank improvement :
Increase tank's mobility to 9 or 10 should make Sap vs Tit balance better.
It will easier to rotate injured tanks back and send healthy tanks to fight plasma tanks.
+1 tank's defence will surely improve game balance.
But it will make tanks become resemble to pinzer.
Thus decrease diversity of this game.
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StarryBlink
Messages: 184,
Joined: Jan 04, 2012,
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StarryBlink
Messages: 184,
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-1 Wrym's groud heavy's attack :
That's a very good ideas. It should make Tit vs Kharl battle more balance.
While it doesn't effect kharl vs sap much because tanks are very rare in this battle.
I agree with increase eclipse's mobility to 11.
Titan definitely need some improvement.
There're significantly fewer titan in the ladder than other races.
How about eclipse can teleport within 5-block distance but require no disable time ?
This changed teleport ability should be more relevant for eclipse than today.
About Marauder's Nitro : it's a fascinating idea.
Despite jeep is my favorite unit in Uniwar.
But for the sake of game balance ,I have to be honest to say
jeep today is already fine and perhap slightly overpowered. ( But don't nerf it, ever  )
I think we should rather improve sap battery, tank and engineer first and see.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jan 02, 2013 21:37
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youownme
Messages: 62,
Joined: Feb 05, 2011,
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youownme
Messages: 62,
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StarryBlink wrote: About Waxoid's Battery +1 ground heavy attack and move after attack mobility to 6 :
It may help kill plasma tank easier. But it still doesn't help against walkers.
Increasing ground heavy attack is useless when walkers are out of range.
For sapien players. The only way to kill walkers by batteries is to gang 2 batteries on 1 walker.
Thus I think the simple and the best way to improve batteries against titan is just reducing batteries price.
About sapien's tank improvement :
Increase tank's mobility to 9 or 10 should make Sap vs Tit balance better.
It will easier to rotate injured tanks back and send healthy tanks to fight plasma tanks.
+1 tank's defence will surely improve game balance.
But it will make tanks become resemble to pinzer.
Thus decrease diversity of this game.
Starryblink brings up some great points. A lot of ideas are being thrown around, but we need to try and find out the specific imbalances between the races, and create solutions to fix these specifically. We do not want batteries running around with +5 aquatic damage and +10 defense when that ruins other aspects of the game and does not even solve the problem at hand.
That being said, I also like the idea of sap tank mobility 10. It would increase imbalance in close quarters, but honestly sap usually win those battles anyways. I have also been toying around with the idea of battery splash damage. Maybe regular attack in target square but less in surrounding?
Sorry cpt, but Nitro is situational. Jeeps are already the most powerful unit in the game... And nitro plus 24 mobility allows for some mean base coverage.
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StarryBlink
Messages: 184,
Joined: Jan 04, 2012,
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StarryBlink
Messages: 184,
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Eclipse : increase its mobility from 10 to 13, but decrease its aerial attack from 12 to 11.
This should make eclipse more able to sneak aerial and infantry.
While still not too powerful against aerial units.
Speeder : increase its mobility from 16 to 18.
Now speeder is the worst 250c unit.
This change will make it able to move 3 tiles in bad terrains.
And make them more comparable to swarmer and jeep.
Pinzer : +1 its aerial attack.
Then it should able to make a little damage to copter in some situations.
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Vogon Jeltz
Messages: 31,
Joined: Jan 09, 2013,
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Vogon Jeltz
Messages: 31,
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Hi,
I think I have completely new idea for balancing. I would call it automated maps balancing. For every setup on any map special factor would be calculated based on statistics of games played with that setup. Credits earned by weaker side would by multiplied by this factor. For example if saps would win most of games with titans in certain setup, there titans would get slightly more credits at start and for every base e.g. 105 instead of 100. After every game this factor would be modified.
Above would be applied only to random matches. Matches with greater score should weight more in statistics.
I think balancing by modifying units is good but cannot overcome map diversity. I like that races are so different and every has its flavor. Loosing that in order to have balance, would be a shame. But of course units should be balanced for 'average map'. Idea of counting statics could help with it.
Idea of mirror matches is also very good. What I don't like in it, is:
- a bit complicated
- you have to hurry
- it slightly changes strategy (specially on unbalanced maps). If there is possibility to fight for some unclaimed bases or to delay capture of bases, it's better to capture them fast in order to have faster game (unless you plan to lose). Sometimes you need to risk more in order to win faster. One who has more luck wins.
Anyway, I would be happy if there was special ranking only for mirrors.
But I'd like to know, what do you think about automated maps balancing?
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Nicko
Messages: 430,
Joined: Mar 07, 2010,
Location: Breda, The Netherlands
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Nicko
Messages: 430,
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A better idea is to just remove these unbalanced maps from the random queue....
I could agree to the eclipse buff, MAYBE the pinzer buff, but certainly not the speeder one. You call it the worst 250 unit, but it's arguably very good for titans especially in early. Good map control, they don't need more.
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"I hate the world's population, it's too large and getting larger. People need to slow down on the sex!"
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Wandering... |
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Vogon Jeltz
Messages: 31,
Joined: Jan 09, 2013,
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Vogon Jeltz
Messages: 31,
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Well, this (removing unbalanced maps) wouldn't be bad. But I think it would be more interesting to have wide diversity of maps balanced by credits allocation. On every map you would have to struggle to win, even fighting with titans in jungle.
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waxoid
Messages: 442,
Joined: Aug 07, 2010,
Location: Seattle, WA
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waxoid
Messages: 442,
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Jeltz I also think that would be fun. We've previously talked about having the server stats inform the scoring, which seems more straightforward – i.e. you would get reduced score (like just 1 point) for winning khral vs. titan on Jungle but if you reversed it you would get inflated points, as an additional factor to the current 'higher ranked player risks more' system. It would have to vary according to level band, since what may be a Titan romp for experienced players may be a Sapien romp for beginners. Having it change the number of credits could work out wonky in some cases but has the promise of making all games more competitive, which might be great. Though I find trying to reverse games where you are at a bit of a disadvantage to be a good challenge and fun as well. It seems less risky to modulate the ranking system and leave the credit system clean, but definitely an interesting idea.
Also just saw StarryBlink's comments about batteries. The point of g. heavy -> 11 is not to improve head-to-head damage trades with walkers, although that is a positive side benefit. The typical use/goal of the battery is to help blow down the walker's defenders so that helis and marauders can get at it. The current state of sap-titan is that batteries are often dancing around the perimeter of walker range looking to do damage to Titan hardware (plasmas and eclipses, or speeders threatening the battery, or mechas on key mountain/forest.) Because they can step out of walker range when the walker steps up, batteries are spending a lot of time beating on g. heavy, and therefore the boost to 11 will be material, as will boosting move-after to 6, so that it can pop back or forward two spaces when it needs to, or onto swamp/forest. (I also think it might be right for balance to take it's normal move up to 7.) Beating walkers by getting multiple batteries trained on them is possible to set up but the stars really have to align in terms of timing and the layout of the map. By the time Titans have even two walkers it gets pretty unlikely. That's not the main way sap players should be thinking about challenging walker positions IMO – more like a situational tactical option that gets interesting as part of extended assaults.
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J.C.
Messages: 208,
Joined: Jul 05, 2011,
Location: Italy
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J.C.
Messages: 208,
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I agree with Wax. It's a long time i push for rated games forced on certain matchups (e.g.: on jungle, available matchups are S v S, K v K, S v K, K v S, T v T) decided basing on the win\loss for each race in each matchup.
I think that the problem with imbalanced maps is really easy to solve. But we should start far away from maps:
What is the main purpose of rated games? To achieve score to be the best in the ladder.
So, two players with the same score should have the same possibility to win (this is not true at the moment, since there are point farmers). To solve any imbalance due to the map and to improve the ladder, it should be:
1. Only random games can be rated;
2. Random games MUST be mirrored, meaning that each player plays in both spots;
3. Winning both gives score;
4. In case of one victory each, less turns rule is applied (after it, kill loss ratio)
These are the measures that will be introduced, as far as i know, in the upcoming PRO ladder (i may have forgotten something). This will solve any imbalance, since both players play in both spots, and who plays better wins points.
what do you think?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 17, 2013 05:13
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Test my maps:
1-on-1
ColdestPlace - Tiny Desert - SkyAndSand
3-on-3
DeadFlower
David
4-on-4
BasesGaloreXL6
BasesGaloreXL7 |
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PurpleLlama
Messages: 31,
Joined: Apr 21, 2013,
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PurpleLlama
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I really like all the ideas presented here. But I think if you are going to change underlings to help titans, then the pinzer should be a buttload stronger. The plasma tank is only fifty credits more, and can kill a pinzer with five remaining health. If you're going to take away one of khrals best units, you need to give us a big upgrade to something else. That's my two cents
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anonym551653
Messages: 112,
Joined: Apr 06, 2014,
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anonym551653
Messages: 112,
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They are quite balanced, just titans hard to use
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anonym551653
Messages: 112,
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anonym551653
Messages: 112,
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If you do make it more balanced, do it by new units and/or one buff each.
Buffs:
Titans: why not give them speeders that have a 1 and 3 range, no 2, but 3 is weaker.
Sapiens: what about choppers whith extra movement after attack for escaping eclipses (still less than original movement ao they aren't to overpowered).
Khraleans: underlings can attack ariel when resurfacing.
If you have to nerf, do it for all of em
Nerfs:
Titans:less defense on tanks.
Sapiens:+1 hp with the tanks instead of +2.
Khraleans:slower wryms
I'd much rather have the New units though 
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anonym551653
Messages: 112,
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anonym551653
Messages: 112,
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The moment when you look back at an old post and say what the @#!& was in my mind an wonder if someone slipped drugs in my soda.  
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