Unit BALANCE changes

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Nov 17, 2015 17:11

Subject: Unit BALANCE changes

SaturnHS

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Joined: Sep 28, 2014,
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Cordet wrote: Now my other issue is the special units engineers, assimilators and the scorpions ( name alludes me). Assimilators have a clear advantage they can UV sap and Khra. They can also assimilate underlings. Sap and reprogram mechs and emp pulse the titans. Bit they cant counter plague with healing. The scorpions on other hand have the short end of stick (unless i missed something). They can plague Sap and infect marines, but what def they have against Titans?

It took me a while to get the hang of Infectors (scorpions). What makes them so good is that they heal x3 instead of x2, and they have increased mobility relative to Engineers and Assimilators. Khrals already heal and move faster than Titans, so they end up with a pretty handy advantage. If anything, I think the Assimilator could stand to be buffed.

Nov 17, 2015 18:08

Subject: Re:Unit BALANCE changes

Lucy in sky

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i like most of the changes except the following:
1. increasing mecha attack vs. air - mecha is already powerful enough imo
2. decreasing eclipse cost - i always thought eclipse should cost 450...
3. lowering swarmer attack and defense - the swarmer is one of the weakest units already. i don't think it should be made even weaker.

btw, these are the changes i especially like:
1. decreasing sapiens tank cost
2. increasing garuda attack vs ground heavy

Nov 17, 2015 19:06

Subject: Re:Unit BALANCE changes

PowerFV

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I strongly agree with the Marauder and Engineer changes. Marauders needed a debuf and the engineer cool down was excessive. The other stuff... meh.

The tank change is ok. The buff feels a little strong for small/medium maps, but would helps maintain racial balance with the marauder debuf. However, I oppose the listed Battery changes. Full after-attack move plus expanded attack width feels drastic. I'd support +1 mobility/+1 after-attack-mobility to make the battery the fastest artillery unit, but am skeptical of the range change and oppose giving full after-attack mobility.

The Titan changes I guess are ok. Increase Mech air-attack while dropping the Plasma air-attack gives the titan infantry a small boost while making the Plasma tanks more tank-like. However, I can't help but feel that the eclipse price drop pushes that unit in to the slightly overpowered catagory and suggest a -1 stat change be included somewhere if the price drop goes through. I'd prefer to see the 2-repair over the 350 cost if it came to that.

The Khralean changes I generally oppose. Leviathans may be a little weak individually but become potent credit for credit once numerical superiority is established. I'm also not convinced the swarmers need a double debuf, and without that the justification for the counter buffs fall apart. Perhaps limit the Khralean changes to just -1 swarmer defense, +1 panzer air attack.

Nov 17, 2015 23:25

Subject: Re:Unit BALANCE changes

Kevster

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Joined: Jan 27, 2015,
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legia wrote:

Kevster wrote:

I think the swarmer is too nerfed. I understand Kroegers point, but I really wouldn't reduce its defence. Its already quite a weakling.

Swarmers are veeery good but you must learn how to use them, check this game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnEw9xLAg1E

Thanks for the heads up, Legia

Nov 17, 2015 23:36

Subject: Re:Unit BALANCE changes

Kevster

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kyle kroeger wrote:. Regarding the walker, the Khraleans have no trouble against the plasma and walker combo so our plan is to increase the efficacy of the tank and battery rather than nerf the walker.

P. S. Go to the forum page on tips and tricks - > gang up bonus to learn why the swarmer is so powerful

Thanks for the feedback, Kyle. Yup I do agree that Saps have more of a problem with the walker, and titans in general, than the Khrals, so I agree with buffing the tank and battery a little. I still think the walker is too powerful, but am happy to be outvoted on this one.

Thanks for the tip on the swarmers. I do understand the gang-up bonus, but probably have not implemented it properly with regards swarmers.

I do agree with some of the comments suggesting an iterative approach to changes in game balance. What the dev team are trying to achieve with the re-balance is pretty hard to get right, so doing fewer rather than more changes and testing makes sense to me. Although I can understand that one needs to address the entire system, i.e. making changes over here means adapting over there to keep the balance, if that makes sense.

Anyway, good luck with the process

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 17, 2015 23:38

Nov 18, 2015 17:46

Subject: Re:Unit BALANCE changes

waxoid

Messages: 442,
Joined: Aug 07, 2010,
Location: Seattle, WA
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I have some thoughts but won't be able to spend time writing them down until the weekend, which might be too late alas.

Nov 18, 2015 20:37

Subject: Re:Unit BALANCE changes

WolfSaint

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Joined: Jul 23, 2015,
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talone wrote:And the main what i want to say. The balance should be made by true professionals who has huge knowledge, a lot of time for testing and responsibility for their decisions. They must oversee the work on setting up the balance from beginning to end, some months or years if needed. They must know and understand the whole picture
, not the only fragments of ideas. There must be a clear understanding of the goals we want to achieve when changing something step by step. But in this changes i see unprofessional and chaotic approach. These changes - one big heap without any purpose.

The balance for strategy is more significant then programming code.

Can you trust to work with programming code to inexperienced amateurs or to professionals? But the work with balance need more professionalism then programing. So if you want to make Uniwar something more then mobile arcade you must use professional approach in the main part of game building - in balance.

Why didn't you use surveys or helping inexperienced amateurs to make program code better? Because you take seriously to work with programming code, but not seriously to work with balance. Surveys and amateurs are not serious if you want to make balance better.

Just care to point this out...this is a game to have fun with. The only way to achieve perfect balance is to make every unit function exactly as the other races' counterparts, and that is boring. If you want a game where mastery is grinding for hours play another game, don't complain over tweaking to get things even for all units. Chances are this will be tweaked again, just tell your likes & dislikes of this one then rather than complain before the update even comes...sapiens were too op and now worst is titans are minorly op now, easy fix

Nov 19, 2015 01:13

Subject: Re:Unit BALANCE changes

kyle kroeger

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WolfSaint wrote:
Why didn't you use surveys or helping inexperienced amateurs to make program code better? Because you take seriously to work with programming code, but not seriously to work with balance. Surveys and amateurs are not serious if you want to make balance better.

We did not select the changes based on the survey. We merely used the survey to gain information and it served its purpose well.

You are right that we will not attain perfect balance, but Talone is wrong that these changes have no direction. These changes will help the following:

1. Khralean's domination of Titans in most maps
2. Titan's domination of Sapiens in maps where titans can last several rounds
3. Swarmers' domination in KvK match ups
4. Sapien's domination of Titans in maps with close quarters
5. Nerfing highly overpowered units
6. Buffing highly underpowered units

Nov 19, 2015 01:43

Subject: Re:Unit BALANCE changes

willingham

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Joined: Nov 19, 2015,
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Seems like too many changes at once to be productive. If there is an unbalance, its a very minor unbalance, which would necessitate fine tuning.
I think by definition, all these changes at once is not a fine tuning but a major overhaul.

Nov 19, 2015 15:07

Subject: Re:Unit BALANCE changes

earth

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Joined: Aug 11, 2011,
Location: UK
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Please can you post in advance of going live what the final changes that will be implemented on any stats changes, as well as date of implementation.

Reason for this is two fold:
1.) Impact on existing game/tournaments if any
2.) Time for wider community apps such as Cytivrat's damage calculator a bit of notice so they can update.

Cheers

Earth

Nov 19, 2015 17:03

Subject: Re:Unit BALANCE changes

Apercent

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I support the battery changes. It's not dramatic as the stats say it is, if anything, it will not make a huge difference. Moving 7 after attack just gives sapiens more options as to where to move. I fully support the move 7 after 7 thing.

I also agree that swarmers need the GH so they can fight off marauders and speeders. Without it, the pinzer is going to need a speed boost so khrals can stop maruader and speeders

Nov 19, 2015 17:19

Subject: Unit BALANCE changes

unikz

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Here is comment from CHN Zero, who can not log on recently, but he likes to make the following comments.

1. Marauder attack on light unit should not reduce, because it is hard for marauder to kill assimilator or infect in 1 go, and can't kill base mecha.

2.Battery change mobility is good but not good enough, attack vs Heavy unit should +1. only increase mobility is not strong enough for a 650 unit. please reduce it back to 550.

3. swarmer change
swarmer defence reduce is good,but anti heavy unit should not reduce

4.Sap tank
sap tank defence should +1, price stays, in that case, Plasma or walker can' t take down a tank in 2 shots

5. Marine should reduce anti air -1. that is the main reason khra can't fight vs Sap.

If xavi is not keen on changing the defence of tank, please do consider to change the battery +1 heavy attack and reduce the price and increase mobility. otherwise there is no way for sap to fight titan units.

these are comments from Chn Zero.

Nov 20, 2015 11:19

Subject: Re:Unit BALANCE changes

Thanks you

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Joined: Jul 30, 2015,
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The battery is able to conter attack swarmers . It is very strong . It is not balanced . The batary need to reduce attake airplane. My English is very bad

Nov 20, 2015 16:07

Subject: Unit BALANCE changes

kyle kroeger

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Joined: Jun 01, 2015,
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ChnZero through Unikz wrote:
Sap tank
sap tank defense should +1, price stays, in that case, Plasma or walker can' t take down a tank in 2 shots

I think you are absolutely right. The tank being killed with 2 shots is a big deal and does not match up with with the nature of it's class. We are trying to work on a solution.

Nov 20, 2015 16:46

Subject: Unit BALANCE changes

talone

Messages: 566,
Joined: Aug 02, 2010,
Location: runiwar.ru
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kyle kroeger wrote:

ChnZero through Unikz wrote:
Sap tank
sap tank defense should +1, price stays, in that case, Plasma or walker can' t take down a tank in 2 shots

I think you are absolutely right. The tank being killed with 2 shots is a big deal and does not match up with with the nature of it's class. We are trying to work on a solution.

Madhouse. Tank with defense like pinzer has. But pinzer costs 450. You guys probably really want to kill this game ....

Have you ever thought about the fact that the race should be different from each other? Light tank - the specificity of the human race. Each race has strengths and weaknesses. You want to mix everything in one pile, make all the units the same. You kill not only a balance but also you are depriving the game of it's diversity.

Balance - is the science, balance - is the work of a goldsmith. But you're behaving like a butcher with an ax

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 20, 2015 16:49

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