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Next Balance Update Discussion February 2016
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LkASr

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LkASr

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I'd want to keep that 9 gl attack, since speeders are versatile and the phrase "hunting for jeeps" would be more prominent and hunting ground lights is the best thing marauders have (besides swarmer hunting)

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drumstep

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drumstep

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Edit: moved this post to it's own topic.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at Feb 27, 2016 18:51

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Apercent

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Apercent

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I think the hydronaut is fine as is. 2-4 is actually better than 1-3 most of the time, so it's fair to say that the hydronaut should get crushed in a straight up battle vs destroyer
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LkASr

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LkASr

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  Apercent wrote:I think the hydronaut is fine as is. 2-4 is actually better than 1-3 most of the time, so it's fair to say that the hydronaut should get crushed in a straight up battle vs destroyer


just like a marauder vs swarmer duel
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simsverd

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simsverd

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Please focus on the actual suggestions that will most likely be implemented... And make new post if you have ideas unrelated to this current suggestion

I think the suggested changes will be very good

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StarryBlink

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StarryBlink

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If you feel need to reduce jeep's ground-light attack to prevent it from solo the capturing infatry in single turn,
could you please consider compensate that nerf with something else instead ?

Otherwise jeep will become a too-weak unit like swarmer today.

Maybe +1 its ground-heavy attack instead to improve sap-titan balance? Or +1 its defence.

- - - - - - - - - - -

About vision. The idea of vision change in forest & mountain is interesting.
But it's important to make it simple for players to calculate enemy's visions.

Maybe +1 vision for infantry on mountain.
-1 vision for unit in forest.
And -2 or -3 vision when see through forest/mountain. (calculate the same way as mobility cost)

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earth

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earth

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Xavi fine with vision apart from destroyer ... also fine with balance changes exception being swarmer still needs a defence buff

Pinzer update seems to be aligned to a certain few players style of play It's not needed in my view.

BR

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legia

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legia

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Swarmer +1GH will again spoil T vs K ! Now T vs K is fine, don't change swarmers GH but GL +1.
Marauder -1GL looks fine, but speeder is still to powerfull.
Pinzer + Wyrm - OK.
Vision changes are OK.

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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  legia wrote:Swarmer +1GH will again spoil T vs K ! Now T vs K is fine, don't change swarmers GH but GL +1.
Marauder -1GL looks fine, but speeder is still to powerfull.
Pinzer + Wyrm - OK.
Vision changes are OK.


FWIW this would be my preference as well

But I am good with the proposed changes... Excited to give them a go around
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Red Five

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Red Five

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  legia wrote:
Marauder -1GL looks fine, but speeder is still to powerfull.



Agreed. Maybe speeder GL is reduced by 1 in the future?


Also, I like the pinzer change. Might reduce the pot shots taken from helis.
amidama

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amidama

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 17, 2016 22:13


Hakumen
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Apercent

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Apercent

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  amidama wrote:reason for that is: marauder can kill a healthly infantry capturing a base in a single turn. NOT A SINGLE other unit in the game can do that! and that does break the balance on a many small maps, apercent.


No not really. They're very killable and hard to maneuver around tanks in smaller maps.

And they can kill infantry in 1 turn. THATS THE FUN PART!
amidama

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amidama

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 17, 2016 22:13


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Kroeger

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Kroeger

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In the most recent balance update, the swarmer’s nerf left the swarmer lacking. Most high level players agree that the defense drop of the swarmer should be kept, but there is more debate on the swarmer’s attack stats. As we explore rebuffing the Swarmer we need to consider these things.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Sapiens vs Khraleans, most players agree that restoring the swarmer’s GH would be a good move. This would allow the swarmer to stand up a little stronger against the marauder. This would not positively or negatively affect the swarmer’s interaction with the tank or battery since they seldom interact with each other. Because of this, restoring GH to the swarmer in this matchup would improve this matchup.

In Khraleans vs Titans, restoring the swarmer’s GH would have some significant negative effects. Since the swarmer is the ultimate gangup unit, it would again be able to commonly do 2 damage to a plasma (3 at times if on a base), 3 damage to eclipses without gangup (5 damage with) and often initiate against a speeder with 4 damage. The swarmer was key for the Khral to crush the titans. Since the titan’s mobility makes it difficult for the titans to get a good first hit and the swarmer’s range allows it to be shielded at times, the swarmer’s decrease in defense would not be effective enough to balance this matchup. I fear this will significantly hurt the balance of this match up. Since the update, after looking at dozens of matchups, I have only found one high level player that did not win both games in a mirrored KvT matchup (ChnZero and Grevi in the January Tournament) and in that matchup, Khral won both games. Titans might have an advantage, but it is slight and I fear restoring the Swarmer’s GH would throw this matchup out of balance.

In Khraleans vs Khraleans, we were trying to make the Pinzer and wyrm counter the swarmer. Even with 3 stats in the pinzer’s favor, it still struggles to counter the swarmer and the swarmer still dominates as almost one half of the units built in this match up. We are trying for this because if Pinzer’s and Wyrm could be introduced to counter the swarmer in KvK, then underlings would appear to counter the pinzer’s and wyrm. This would create a broad circle as swarmers and garudas obviously counter underlings. Restoring the GH to the swarmer would have a significant negative impact on the swarmer’s interactions with the Pinzer and Wyrm. Restoring GH is not a good option for this matchup as it would reverse progress in this matchup.

In conclusion, I think we should try and find solutions to the swarmer and KvS problems in other areas. Here are some possible options:

Swarmer +1 or even +2 G.L. (can not go to 10). This would let two swarmers always break a cap (marauder’s and speeders can always do this). This would also help swarmer get a better initiate on infantry units.

Swarmer +1 mobility. This would allow swarmers to navigate around bases like they do elsewhere.

Please leave your thoughts and more suggestions in the forum if you have them.
Kroeger

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Kroeger

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^^^ is copy and pasted from a more official document. I would love your opinions.
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