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only paid undo will work soon
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King pyrrhus

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King pyrrhus

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My opinion is that if it MUST happen then let's also keep a free undo with either a 2-3 hour gap in between as suggested earlier in this post it give a limited number of undo's per game AND reduce the current cost of paid undo.Then all sides would be happy.The time delay between free undo's is well known from other apps so it would be accepted by new players imo
nindatana

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nindatana

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  Mentalist wrote:I can't help but appreciate the dilemma Xavi is facing. Free undo encourages multi account, actually its a requirement. So less people will buy the undo button and less people will buy extra slots. But if they take it away, it will impact the fairness of the game. And I take into account the best scenario which is that it won't affect the game that much. Even so, it will affect it. If it goes free may god help Xavi. People already complain about the most insignificant things, I KNOW people will be asking for a refund. Even if the shop clearly states that there would be none, Xavi already did it once, that creates expectations so i don't think he should have done it. That's it. I'm just contemplating this whole problem and thanking the god I don't believe in for not being in Xavi's shoes right now


Yes, it must be very difficult for Xavi. I've seen enough in my short time here to believe his dedication and intent in building the best game and community is sincere. Thanks for outlining the dilemma so succinctly; there isn't a completely clean way out now. ... The fundamental point is that Xavi needs and deserves to make a living from this. Enable that and finding the balance point between free and paid undo will be easier, in my opinion.
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cmbaptist

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cmbaptist

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If you like the game and foresee yourself playing for years to come as I do, just support the game by buying some coins...

Psalms 100:5 For the Lord is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.
Selexcis

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Selexcis

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I have read a suggestion somewhere that you could make the undo option as a game specific option.

For instance players could decide before hand if undo was going to be allowed, or not.

In tournaments it could be a fixed feature.

So in tournaments, one option could be no fog of war, and no undos allowed. (this makes it much more like chess, which i am in favour of)

You could play ranked with undos, or ranked without undos, on the same account and have a different rating in each.

I think both require a different skill set to play. No FOW and no undos is more like chess.

No FOW and undos is like chess on training wheels.

FOW and no undos requires a lot more anticipation and flexibility which is less like chess.

FOW + undo just doesn't make sense. why play FOW if you're only going to undo to avoid it?

I agree that undos needs to be standardized. I agree that the way for uniwar to earn more income is from non play related benefits such as skins/art/music etc. Others include map packs and campaigns with a deep satisfying story line and real challenging single player campaigns. as mentioned before.

For those who have already purchased unlimited undos, the benefit is they can play in the unlimited undo tournaments and unlimited undo ranked games while other players who have not bought unlimited undos cannot.

I would then suggest refunding all uni coins to those who have bought undo tokens.

Sorry if what i have mentioned has been suggested elsewhere, but i did not read it being discussed.





amidama

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amidama

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This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at Jul 17, 2016 22:39


Hakumen
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Shadowntr

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Shadowntr

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Why not leave undos as they are and look into other revenue streams?

The word philosophy sounds high-minded, but it simply means the love of wisdom. If you love something, you don't just read about it; you hug it, you mess with it, you play with it, you argue with it.

- Hugh Jackman

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wookieontheweb

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wookieontheweb

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So I've read pretty much all of this post and have not seen my opinion stated, but sorry if I'm repeating things.

First, I have bought infinite undo, because
- I kept making miss-clicks, particularly when zooming while a unit is selected
- I wanted to support the devs
- I play casually although quite frequently and don't want to spend ages staring at the board with a note pad working out all the options

I use undo lots. I probably use it between 3 and 10 times every turn (except the early turns). I wish undo was more like a text document but I wouldn't want devs to waste time on that. I feel it is unfair of people to say I'm abusing the system. I'm just trying out different moves, this is exactly the same as the many embedded planner boards on Chess and Go sites... and there are no rules I know of that say I can't try out moves on my own board in a real chess tournament (ever played a blind person? they have their own boards). The rule I know is if I touch a piece on the tournament board then I must move it, or on a site once I submit my move to my opponent then it is fixed. However because of all that infinite undo IS an advantage. My rank has gone from 1550+ to 1750+ and climbing but I feel this is because I can play to my best rather than being held back by a poor instant choices.

I generally can't be bothered to scout then undo, but if I move a marauder towards a base and find a Plasma tank there I'll probably undo and think of something else.

Some of the ideas listed are bad:
- Not revealing the fog till after I submit does not work. If I move a marauder but you don't reveal the area then I would be able to put that unit on top of another enemy unit in my second move. There are so many edge cases and hacks that would need to be put in to make fog removal after move work that it would break the game that I like.
- banner ads are bad they take up space. personally I ignore them on the rare occasions when my ad blocker does not stop them
- making me wait 20 secs before I can do something or worse making me watch an add for 20 secs will annoy me ALOT. I have other things that take up my time, I dip in and out of uniwar when I can don't waste my time when I'm there!

Personally I don't care about pretty flags or backgrounds. I play for the strategy of the game not the graphics. However as there are people that do pay for pink tanks with flowers then go for it.
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wookieontheweb

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wookieontheweb

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Some ideas of my own.
- Make undo remove all/some of the random unit bonus. I am getting a bonus from using undo. I should probably not also get the random unit bonus, especially as I can change the order of attack to get a kill I really shouldn't be able to.
- Make infinite undo annual. Initially give people that already have it 2 years
- If I have undo then my opponent has undo (I think someone else mentioned this)... would act as a teaser too
- Place ads in the void space on levels. Might need 3 hexes together to put a banner ad in there. Think of the billboards arround the football/soccer stadium
- Put banner ads as features on in game billboards that will get trampled by me putting a tank on it


Please don't remove infinite undo its one of the things that makes me really enjoy playing the game.
Selexcis

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Selexcis

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i don't think anybody mentioned removing paid infinite undo.

another thread already mentioned they were going to implement ads for people how HAVEN'T paid for it but allow them infinite undo that way.

i like the idea of tournaments having a no undo feature or both players being able to access it.
Sicariphus

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Sicariphus

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I'd like to add my own voice here...

PLEASE JUST GET RID OF UNDO ALTOGETHER.

Reasons:

1: It's not really necessary for the game to be fun.

2: It makes games longer.

3: It almost certainly frustrates new players who don't know about it / why it's important yet: It's one more (invisible) reason why they're getting creamed by every player they meet.

4: It is CERTAINLY not the only way to make money.

5: It leaves a bad taste in many players' mouths, particularly if they feel like they have no choice but to use undo, because their opponents probably are.

6: Getting rid of undo solves the FOW issues very easily.




ALTERNATIVE IDEAS FOR MAKING THE GAME PROFITABLE:

1: Charge a few dollars for new content. New units, new races... Like an expansion. But only accessible in games where both players have the expansion. This is the model followed by the game Star Realms, and it really seems to work pretty great there. Plenty of players who have the expansions still play games with players without the expansions. And as a bonus, choosing to play a game with or without expansion content gives players some additional choices about what style of games they want to play. And in non-expansion games, everyone is ALWAYS on a completely equal footing.

2: Charge for access to tournaments.

3: Develop (and charge for) better AI opponents.

4: Create a large database of replays (call it "The Archive" or something), and charge a one-time fee for Archive access. It's something that many people would enjoy, or find useful as a way of developing strategy, but isn't an advantage in the way that undo is.

5: Sell passes to be a beta tester for new features.

6: Sell Uniwar merchandise. Coffee mugs with the Uniwar logo, phone cases. Or, even cheaper to produce: Nicely designed paper reference sheets (on nice paper), art prints, etc.



Seriously, think about it. The game doesn't NEED turn undo. And strategy has always meant planning in a way that accounts for uncertainty.
amidama

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amidama

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Hakumen
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wookieontheweb

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wookieontheweb

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  Sicariphus wrote:
...

PLEASE JUST GET RID OF UNDO ALTOGETHER.

Reasons:

1: It's not really necessary for the game to be fun.

2: It makes games longer.

3: It almost certainly frustrates new players who don't know about it / why it's important yet: It's one more (invisible) reason why they're getting creamed by every player they meet.

4: It is CERTAINLY not the only way to make money.

5: It leaves a bad taste in many players' mouths, particularly if they feel like they have no choice but to use undo, because their opponents probably are.

6: Getting rid of undo solves the FOW issues very easily.

...The game doesn't NEED turn undo. ...


Allow me to retort...

PLEASE _DO NOT_ GET RID OF UNDO.

1. I like to try different options of attack, I find that fun. I didn't find it fun when I realised that I had forgotten that I needed to build a unit on a base to stop it being capped but I'd already spent my credits somewhere else.
2. No it doesn't, these are all games that are timed per turn. In most games I have 24hrs to make my move what do you care if I spend 20 minutes thinking about my move then make it perfectly in 1 go or the same time trying different turn options using undo. Unless you mean I am more likely to make a mistake you can capitalise on, then yes games get much shorter, but much less fun.
3. New players get creamed regardless of undo, though I think Xavi's solution of undo for all with Ads is better than removing it. (besides how would they know its the turn undo if its an invisible advantage they don't know about?)
4. I agree, but given the current list of buyable items I bet it is the one that has earned the most.
5. This might be true, but to me there is no way to tell if I am playing some kind of Uniwar god or playing someone of more normal ability helped by turn undo... and why should I care. Turn undo does not make your overall strategy any better.
6. So does removing the FOW and I'd rather that than remove undo. Removing FOW is already an option and it doesn't hurt game play, removing turn undo will hurt many people's game play.

Actually you are right the game doesn't NEED turn undo... what it NEEDS it unlimited move undo. That way I wont have to redo an entire turn when I make a mistake on the penultimate move!

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Sicariphus

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Sicariphus

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Ok, I can agree with you on some points. I certainly agree that move undo is preferable to turn undo, since it doesn't essentially negate fog-of-war and the element of surprise.

I can also get behind the idea of making undo a selectable option, like FoW is now. Although personally, I would very, VERY strongly prefer that all ranked games be "no undo."

But if it's feasible, I think your suggestion of "unlimited action undo" may actually be the best compromise solution I've heard so far. It can much more easily be implemented in a way that doesn't break FoW, it means that players who purchased unlimited undo still have something of value, it still raises money for Xavi, and it still helps deal with misclicks and other annoyances.
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volf

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volf

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I would probably pay for unlimited move undo. That is RLY handy. I wouldnt pay for turn undo as is. It is too easy to do it for free but I would totally pay 5 to 8 bucks for move undo. Love it. Great idea. Volf has spoken. Let it be heard, let it be written, let it be done.
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