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I don't think I'm particularly good.
I do think Saps mostly beat Khrals, even with the latest changes, and anyone who thinks otherwise is mistaken.
Happy to be shown the error of my ways.
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How will everyone's favorite belligerent forum spammer fare with the squiggly aliens under his command
If you think Khrals are now better than Saps, my guess is 'badly'.
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The problem with this strategy is that is a defensive strategy that presumes Titans will attack Sapiens.
On Dead Monk (and most other maps) Titan's dominant strategy is to slow the game down and play defensively until they can build up to protect walkers who will dominate anything Sapiens can bring late game.
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Kralux and team,
So glad you are still working on this. PLEASE do something to rebalance the game. Probably more than this.
At the moment (on non water maps)
1. Khrals generally beat Titans - massed buried underlings are mostly impossible to counter. How about Lion's old suggestion of UV hurting buried underlings?
2. Sapiens generally beat Khrals - Heli's + Marines together own anything Khral's have if played well. Maybe the Wyrm needs a slightly better air attack, or even the Infector a higher defense?
3. Titans generally beat Sapiens on open maps - Saps can't penetrate a well turtled Titan (unless the bases are very spread out).
4. Saps beat everything on many heavy terrain maps Because terrain supposedly favours infantry but Marines are VERY powerful in terrain, whereas Underlings / infectors get owned by Heli's, and Mecha just get captured by Engineers and have no air unit to back them like the other races.
5. There are several maps that need fixing (or removal) badly. Most obvious are Green Valley (Blue can always win) and Jungle (Saps can always win). Could we maybe have a way to filter specific maps out at least. So sick of scrolling pages and pages of Green Valley 'traps-games'.
1-3 above makes the game like a game of scissors paper rock where the second player knows what the first has picked already, so people abuse 4 and 5 on maps like Jungle, Green Valley, Hurtgen Forest, Forest walk etc to win as blue/ saps. And it makes it pointless to play at the moment.
Thanks so much for giving the game new life!
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lion3 wrote: Ok after playing more games against top Khral players, I was beaten twice (with me playing Saps).
So I guess the answer to my question is no, Saps dont always beat Khrals.
I therefore withdraw my suggestion to increase the Swarmer air attack.
However, I would still point out the following:
1) Khral payers only beat me on maps with no mountains and no forests (or no usable mountains & forests) so the Sap marine was not nearly as useful.
2) The games were very close.
3) I did win a re-match with one of the Khral players.
4) I was not playing my best.
There are some maps where Khrals beat saps - particularly where there are lots of marshes, which lowers a Marine's efficiency vs air units.
I'm not sure what the answer is, but it isn't raising the Swarmer air attack. This was lowered not that long ago because if you raise it, Swarmers become quite O/P when spammed continuously.
Perhaps raising the Pinzers air attack slightly, to make them a better blocker? Then again this was raised then quickly lowered too.
How about lowering the Heli's air attack? Or raising the Wyrms? Or (as already suggested) giving the Underling a small air attack. I think the last is probably the best option... makes them somewhat useful in Khral vs Sap matches, esp in good Terrain.
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Nixflix wrote: 3 spyders that pop out of the ground and hit a plasma tank will do good damage or kill it, depebdig on the terrain, but that doesn't need fixing
If you target marines with swarmers and helis with garudas, with an infector back on safety, you should be fine
Mostly you need four.
Also, I disagree. On average land maps (sparse / medium terrain, 100 credits per base, 300 income, medium size) Khrals will pretty much always beat Titans (and Titans will beat Saps) - and that SHOULD be fixed.
As always, there are exceptions, but those exceptions aren't really balanced either. You could say it is part of the game, knowing what race to choose on what maps, but in reality these seem to mean that many maps have an insurmountable advantage to one side - either the first player always wins with a certain race (eg Green Valley), or the second player always wins if they know which race to pick against which (eg Wild Plains).
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Strongly agree with Lion3
Pie2.1: comparing Heli's to Garuda's in a straight fight doesn't work. You have to factor in Marines to the equation because people almost always mix Marines with Heli's. You were complaining that Marines are too strong vs Heli's, they are even more so against Garuda's. Saps are very strong against Khrals on most land maps because of this. Making the Heli stronger only makes it worse.
Also, you are not taking into account how powerful the Heli's second move is. It makes it A LOT easier for them to gang up, and to jump behind the protection of a screen of Marines. This is very powerful, something the Garuda doesn't have, and worth a lot more than a slightly higher defense. Heli's are expensive but well worth it.
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I agree Saps always beat Khrals on typical land only maps. Some unusual maps are exceptions.
Heli's + Marine's just beat the crap out of Garuda + Swarmers. It needs fixing, if the devs still care.
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As I said in the other thread NO WAY.
Heli's rock, hard.
Two kill a Garuda in one round, the can gang up like swarm of bitch, they move fast, escape easy, and are hell on wheels for camping enemy bases.
If anything they are still TOO STRONG!
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NO WAY.
Heli's are still a VERY powerful unit.
Heli's + Marines MURDER Garuda's + Swarmers, if used right.
If anything that combo is a bit over powered.
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In my experience an expert Titan player playing red should always win vs Sapiens on this map.
Against a lesser player, a fast marauder / Marine / engineer rush will work.
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I've played sale, and from what I remember he's pretty good (way better than me). He's been rated #1 before too. He has almost twice as many loses as you and 4/5 as many games. If he friended everyone he played (or even just everyone he beat to keep track of them) he would have hundreds of friends. That's fair enough, and in no way cheating.
Your accusations don't really seem to stack up.
The admins could easily tell if he was doing what you are saying since each iphone has a unique ID that the devs can track. If you are concerned, why don't you PM Kralux and see what he thinks?
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alex94040 wrote: Hachiman - you are alleging that three people with rating significantly higher than yours are lying. That's, well, a bit rude.
I'm not alleging anything. I was simply suggesting there are other possible explanations. In my experience it is best not to take the word of anonymous people on the internet at face value. So you can calm down.
I did have moerderin demonstrate this in a game to me, and I too now believe it to be true.
I think it could be handled without all the drama though. Why don't you guys just PM Kralux or Rolando, or contact them via the Uniwar Facebook or Twitter accounts? They might not see the message here.
[edit]
I PM'd Kralux on here and on Facebook to let him know.
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Hmmm, hack or photoshop? You people seem pretty good at getting screen shots at the right time!
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It seems that slight map imbalances are always going to mean a lot of available games to join are not fair in this game. I mean why wouldn't people set up a game where they think they have the best chance to win? This is why you see many games of the most notoriously unbalanced maps (eg Desolate, Green Valley, Scramble) available all the time. Traps like this make the game less fun.
One thought is to change the way games are set up.
What if the player setting up the map chose both the map AND both races to play, and the joining player then chose which side he wanted to play out of the two the first player had selected.
I think very quickly you would see players setting up games they thought were the most fair, instead of the most advantageous to themselves. Because if you set up an unbalanced combo, you would likely have it used against you!
As an added advantage, this could mean the host wouldn't always move first.
Just a thought.
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