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This is a complex game, so obviously there can be some exception such as sneaking an underling unnoticed to a base, etc.
But in general, for large scale K vs. K battles, its nothing but swarmers.
Garudas are strong when they attack, but then they get killed by the swarmers without doing any damage.
So in the end a garuda/ swarmer mix gets dominated by an all swarmer mix.
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Same race matchups are almost always boring.
Khral vs khral is just mass swarmers on both sides.
Sap vs. Sap will often be slightly more interesting, depending on terrain. It might be mass heli's, or it might also involve some marines + marauders.
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boourns wrote: A thought exercise for you lion3.
Pretend that everything the blue player does on his first turn is already done - he captures his bases but does NOT build any units - and in so doing this we pretend his 2nd turn is actually his first. In other words the red player is going first. On most maps (maybe all?) I think you will find that the advantage of "going 2nd" given to the blue player in this scenario is greater than the one given to the red player.
I have run this thought experiment many times. If Blue plays first, he starts without getting base money. If he does nothing, then red plays first with base money. So Red has the advantage.
We can take this a step further. After blue does nothing, red can also do nothing, thus forcing blue to play first after all. In that case, blue only got base money once while red got base money twice.
Blue does not have the option of "switching places" with red, as you seem to imply.
I cannot stress enough how important an issue this is. Blue has to pick his race first and also starts with less money. This means in 90% of cases, red wins. Thats why there are practically zero high level games to choose from. Why would anyone play as blue?
GAME Developers - these are the 2 biggest imbalances in the game and can be fixed in 1 hour of work. Have red earn only 50% base credits in turn 1. Also, when games are set up, have Blue choose his race, but dont show his choice until red also chooses a race!!!!
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This actually makes a very big difference for the amount of credits that red starts with. Blue does not get any base credits in round 1, but red does.
So if the bases were already captured when the game starts, red would get a lot more credits in turn 1.
This is already a big balance problem for some maps where most bases are already owned in the beginning (great wall, wild plains, etc).
One of the reasons that we have so few 2 player games at the higher levels is that the higher level players have figured this out and understand the current system greatly favors red over blue.
Game Developers - this is a big balance issue that you could solve in 10 seconds. Just have red get 50% base credits in turn 1.
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Respectfully, there are a few more things that should have been added in this update.
The ability to decline a game invitation is long overdue. As a programmer myself, I cannot imagine it would take more than 1 hour of work to add it.
Adding 10 new maps cannot be more than 1 days work, given that we already have lots of designs on this forum.
Setting restrictions on games (example: only players rated 1800+) would also be very useful and cannot be more than 2 hours of work.
Another nice feature would be this: I choose my race when I set up a game, but the other player does not see my choice until he also chooses a race. Again, maybe 2 hours of work.
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Sign me up.
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Someone just started a random game against me.
I am rated 2493. They are rated 2269.
Thats grossly unfair. I can only lose points. If I win I get almost nothing. If I lose, I lose max points.
Come on game developers.
Do you want everyone to just turn off random games???
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guruguru wrote: I agree with everything said here, but I do want to throw out there that this is, in the end, a cheap mobile phone game designed by a small team that sold respectably but probably didn't make all that much money. (Or maybe they made millions, what do I know.)
Maybe there's just a point where you get too good for it, since it may be too much to expect them to put the man hours in to balance it for the top tier of veterans. For casual players who don't know all of the tricks even some of the more unbalanced maps are a relatively fair fight; it's only when you get a few months in that the lopsidedness of certain races and fights become really obvious.. Unless of course someone spells them all out for you. And a few months or more is pretty good for a game of this nature, getting a year and a half of gameplay like a lot of people have is amazing.
That said, here's hoping there's a Uniwar 2 where they learned the balance lessons of Uniwar 1. I just don't expect any major under-the-hood work to be done on this game any more.
I agree with everything you said. After 2 years of playing this game, I still occasionally learn something new. I do not expect the development team to put in any large further game development effort. However, there are some small improvements and fixes that are years overdue by now and should only take minimal work and effort.
For example, isn't it time we had a way to reject game invitations?
Adding 20 new maps would revitalize the game and cannot be more than 2 days work (we already have many map suggestions in these forums). If you are worried about the maps not being balanced, just make them all unrated.
Adding 2 new races cannot take much work (although balancing them will take a ton of work). So just add them and limit them to unrated games. This would completely revitalize the game and give us another 2 years of playing. My suggestion for new races is: undead (skeleton, zombie, vampire, lich, etc) and mystical (elves, dwarfs, gnomes, ogres, trolls, etc). I could come up with reasonable stats and abilities in 2 days work.
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Update. The game finally ended after many, many rounds of play. Saps won. Essentially we got 2 lines staring at each other. The Titans had walkers behind PT's (or behind Mecha's on mountains). The Saps had Helis + trucks on the front line, behind them a line of heli's and behind them a line of marauders.
Because the Sap player had 4 more bases, he had more units in general.
The Sap player would then advance his 3 front line one hex. The Titan player got to fire off his front line of Walkers. The Sap player then used what was left of his front line + his second line of Heli's to destroy the PT's and Mechas. The Marauders could then rush in and kill the Walkers.
This is an oversimplification since terrain made it all much more complex, but you should get the point.
After a while of this, Saps had the upper hand and the game was over.
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lion3 wrote:
nfong wrote: I think Titans should beat Krahls now on Dead Monk.
I played Ismael before, and he was excellent with Titans. He knew exactly where each of my ants were :3
Thanks for the suggestion. I send Ismael a game invitations for DeadMonk and Wildplains Khrl vs. Titan.
I do think that DeadMonk and Starvation are probably the 2 most balanced maps in the game. But most other maps are far less balanced, with the majority of maps not balanced at all.
Ok, just an update on this. As you suggested, I played Dead-Monk with me as Khrls against Ismael as Titans. Ismael is an excellent Titan player, and I have great respect for his play. However, I easily won the match. At no point was it ever even close.
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Gilgamesh wrote:
Thing is, sometimes it's a bit more complex than you think, even for pro-players. For example I'm pretty sure red Titans can always beat blue Khrals on Wild Plains. I can't invite you to a matchup with me playing second, so feel free to invite me if you want to confirm or dispute.
Ok, I sent you a game invitation.
Even if you are right, and due to some quirk in the WildPlains map red Titans beat Blue Khrals, it still does not change my point that the map is not balanced. It still means that every time you start a random game and get blue khrls vs red titans, there is no point in the game. May as well just surrender before even moving.
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nixoncc wrote: One possible solution - More Races, or random race assignment
I am 100% in favor of more races, but those will also never be balanced with the existing races.
Random race assignment will never work unless the maps are fully balanced.
You start a random game and get to play on the WildPlains map.
Game is over before it ever starts.
We know the Titans will beat Saps, Saps will beat Khrls, and Khrls will beat Titans.
whats the point of even playing it? We know exactly how it will play out.
The only lesson is to not start random games anymore.
This is just 1 example, but for almost all maps-race combinations, the winner is known before the game ever begins.
Note: please don't reply that Saps can beat Titans on Wild-Plains, etc. They cannot. If you need proof, send me a game invite.
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nfong wrote: I think Titans should beat Krahls now on Dead Monk.
I played Ismael before, and he was excellent with Titans. He knew exactly where each of my ants were :3
Thanks for the suggestion. I send Ismael a game invitations for DeadMonk and Wildplains Khrl vs. Titan.
I do think that DeadMonk and Starvation are probably the 2 most balanced maps in the game. But most other maps are far less balanced, with the majority of maps not balanced at all.
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nfong wrote: It looks like a draw to me.
If this is a draw then the game is grossly unbalanced. The Sap player has 4 bases more than the Titan player. He should be able to win.
What about filling the entire bottom of the map with heli's and at some point just charging ahead with everything?
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asdf wrote: If you think khrals dominate titans on all maps, then you haven't played any good titans players.
Yes, I do think Khrals dominate Titans on all non-naval maps (except maybe very small and "gotcah" type maps).
And yes, I have played against practically every player who ever played this game including the best of the best.
If anyone thinks I am wrong, send me a game invite and prove it.
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