Unfair players

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Jun 05, 2011 22:05

Subject: Re:Unfair players

zalcore

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Joined: Oct 09, 2010,
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None of the maps can ever be perfectly balanced. The races will never be perfectly balanced. This is fact, even the supposedly balanced race/map combos are still unbalanced, their just slightly less noticeable. There are two reasons for this, one is that this is a Turn Based Strategy game focused around smaller maps. The terrain is different on all of the maps allowing for some races to succeed while other fail. (Think of Titans on Green valley). The second is that there aren't enough units in the game for there to be a counter-strategy for every strategy. The devs wanted to make three very different races, which they succeeded on, but because of this they aren't balanced. If you look at the two games that Uniwar was based off of you can see why they're balanced. Advance Wars had pre-made maps with pre-made unit selection. The scenarios were engineered to be perfectly balanced. Starcraft had 3 VERY different races, and Blizzard was able to balance it because they made enough diverse units for there to always be a counter strategy. (And also because maps where terrain doesn't benefit units won't vary as much.) Uniwar doesn't do either of these. (The second one it does badly.) I'm not saying that Uniwar is a bad game, it's the best strategy game on the appstore, but it will never be balanced until the devs actually sit down and brainstorm on how to fix it instead of adding minor aesthetic changes every six months.

Another thing, a few months ago the devs actually did make an attempt at fixing the imbalances and remove unfair players, they didn't do it well, but they tried. They made only random games rated. But of course the community bitched and moaned until the devs changed it back. Blizzard made the Ranked ladder based only off of random games and their community have never complained, so I have absolutely no idea why the Uniwar community has issues with it. And realistically random games are the most balanced form of gameplay. Yes, sometimes you do get a bad matchup. Sometimes because of the race/map combo you are going to lose. But then there's also that chance that you'll get the advantageous race and you'll win, so it balances out. But the better players are the ones who are going to come out on top, even when the race combo favors the enemy player. One of the complaints about the "forced random games" was that they couldn't play the race they wanted to. That's been adressed, so now there's no problem with having only rated randoms.

Why isn't my name CAPITALIZED? As always the world is out to get me...

Jun 05, 2011 22:10

Subject: Re:Unfair players

zalcore

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If you enjoy the game then what's the problem with playing unrated game? The only difference is that you won't be increasing or decreasing your score on a not well known game ladder that no one aside from you and a small group of people are going to care about.

I apologize for the double post but there's this damned word limit.

Why isn't my name CAPITALIZED? As always the world is out to get me...

Jun 06, 2011 19:15

Subject: Re:Unfair players

nfong

Messages: 576,
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zalcore wrote:
Another thing, a few months ago the devs actually did make an attempt at fixing the imbalances and remove unfair players, they didn't do it well, but they tried. They made only random games rated. But of course the community bitched and moaned until the devs changed it back. Blizzard made the Ranked ladder based only off of random games and their community have never complained, so I have absolutely no idea why the Uniwar community has issues with it.

Yeah, I agree with this. Starcraft is amazing, and no one ever complains about all ranked games being random. The problem with the people on Uniwar is that they're used to playing rated games with anyone, and in short, they're rating whores. I would say at least 70% of the top players either bot-farmed or fed off other accounts.
It's quite disturbing that whenever I try to look for a good game to join, half of the games are scramble or maps like jungle.

When life gives you lemons...

"TAKE YOUR DAMN LEMONS BACK, LIFE. I DON'T WANT YOUR STINKIN' LEMONS."

Jun 06, 2011 20:58

Subject: Re:Unfair players

waxoid

Messages: 442,
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yeah I think what got out of hand here is the point whoring as you say – too many folks got addicted to finding their preferred map for winning most of the time (e.g. if they only accept one race) and now that *is* the game for a lot of people, that's where the fun is, so the devs were essentially taking the game away. Playing uniwar well across races and maps is hard and uncertain, where's the fun in that.

Well in fairness, it's also true that uniwar fun can really vary across maps and matchups. I for one would prefer an option to tell the randomizer I never want to play khral vs. khral, for example. In fact, if there were an option to only take games where the two races are different I'd sign up for that I think, though T-T and S-S aren't quite as bad. Also some of the bigger maps can be more tedious, though on the other other hand I will say that switching to pure random play hasn't nearly been as bad as I feared it was. Even matches that I thought would be ridiculous (Titans vs. Saps on Great Wall – I was able to win, though I now think that one should be a draw if played correctly, or Land Bridge which I never really gave a chance, etc.) were not as bad as I thought. The matching system has been glitchy (terrible UI on how to decide how many games to participate in, I guess they've changed it again with latest update? Still don't understand it fully) but has been connecting me with active players of reasonable skill who are more interested in the game than working the point system so that's great.

I play in streaks and lost a bunch of points getting assigned to games while not playing for awhile (apparently, anyway there were a bunch of 'you lost' games waiting for me somehow and my score was way down.) Going back on another break so I'll see if it happens next time. I have the 'available to random play' setting OFF and my last game ended so fingers crossed.

Wonderfully mysterious what "New rules for player rated above 2000" in the update is referring to, I wasn't able to figure it out this time around...

Jun 06, 2011 21:21

Subject: Re:Unfair players

zalcore

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The whole point of unrated games is so that those who don't want to play certain maps or match-ups have the option to play ANY race/map combo they want. Just because random games force you to play losing battles doesn't mean that you have to losing battles. You just won't be getting any points for the more fun match-ups that you want to play.

Common Sense 101

Why isn't my name CAPITALIZED? As always the world is out to get me...

Jun 06, 2011 22:50

Subject: Re:Unfair players

waxoid

Messages: 442,
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Location: Seattle, WA
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Ah, but the extension class Common Sense 102 gets into this: joining a random game is a commitment; if you don't want to be penalized, you have to play it through. That can be days of a tedious swarmer fest, say (which is no hugely terrible thing, but this is after all a form of entertainment and as such it faces lots of competition).

The advantages of ranked games include (a) you get matched with players of more similar skill, (b) there is incentive to play well and through; you don't get players abandoning games as much, (c) it's fun and motivational to improve your score. It's possible to want all of those advantages but not want to play certain maps or matchups that are more tedious. To answer your question, the disadvantage of unranked games then, is that they lose these advantages of ranked play.

Jun 11, 2011 05:13

Subject: Unfair players

blight111

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Joined: May 16, 2011,
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talone wrote:
If you get unfair game, write in chat "unfair! " and offer to draw peace. If your opponent don't want to draw, write his name here. We should know this shameful heroes

got random game on Wildplains. I play blue Khraleans. FOREFALL play red Sapiens.
I say unfair and ask for peace. FOREFALL refuses twice.

Jun 11, 2011 11:57

Subject: Re:Unfair players

waxoid

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Just curious if you don't mind answering about WildPlains... Is the problem just Sapiens beating Khral (even with marines reduced to 3 on air attack?) or a blue/red imbalance on the particular map, or a combination of the two? What is the formula red Sapiens uses to win on this?

Having played a lot of Titans pre-random era, I'm still trying to pick up higher level sap vs. khral understanding. I tended to avoid WildPlains in general; most recent random ranked play on that was Sapiens vs. Titans which it seemed to me Titans should probably win though they didn't in that particular case...

Jun 12, 2011 15:13

Subject: Unfair players

TheOwner

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blight111 wrote:

talone wrote:
If you get unfair game, write in chat "unfair! " and offer to draw peace. If your opponent don't want to draw, write his name here. We should know this shameful heroes

got random game on Wildplains. I play blue Khraleans. FOREFALL play red Sapiens.
I say unfair and ask for peace. FOREFALL refuses twice.

Now when did you ask? I often have players asked late into the game when I've already beaten them and they had the game in their favor. If you ask within the first 3 turns I'll give you peace, but any later I probably wont.

I was gonna say 'You been owned' but that makes me sound cocky... so um... ya...

Jun 16, 2011 08:10

Subject: Re:Unfair players

3 Nails

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Joined: Jun 05, 2011,
Location: Orlando, Florida
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After reading this thread I'm glad I'm a new player who has no clue what race beats what race on what map. I just get to play a game and enjoy. Ignorance is bliss.lol

Everyone was a noob once. Remember that when I say something stupid. :p

Jun 19, 2011 15:17

Subject: Unfair players

blight111

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Joined: May 16, 2011,
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TheOwner wrote:

blight111 wrote:

talone wrote:
If you get unfair game, write in chat "unfair! " and offer to draw peace. If your opponent don't want to draw, write his name here. We should know this shameful heroes

got random game on Wildplains. I play blue Khraleans. FOREFALL play red Sapiens.
I say unfair and ask for peace. FOREFALL refuses twice.

I asked right away before the game even began.
Exact same story happened again in another unfair random game with him (Chato Hill) and again he refused peace. I will also say that he is rated over 2500, but plays no better than a 2000 rated player. Does anyone know how he got rated so high?

I actually ended up beating him in Wildplains with me as blue khrals and him as red saps after he refused my request for peace. That is one of the most unfair matchups in the game, so its sad that a 2500+ player plays so poorly that he actually loses that match.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jun 20, 2011 15:14

Jun 26, 2011 21:54

Subject: Re:Unfair players

shaithis

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Joined: Jun 26, 2011,
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nfong wrote:

Bad analogy honestly guys; map imbalances in Starcraft do not automatically hand the win to one player unless he makes a mistake

I did not see the Jungle map discussed. Blue saps or red khrals always win, only blue sap vs red khral is borderline interesting.

I wish that the devs would open a map making utility for us and then run a contest. I'm sure that we can come up with 10 or so maps that can approach balance. Also, I think that each race needs a new utility to round out its weakness (saps - too much plains and they are weak, give ability to plant forest on swamp and plains, however marauders need -1 mobility / +1 on forests (to retain 2 squares) immediately; khrals - let infector burrow and resurface > plague / infect; titans - they need lots of help, good start would be decreased forest penalty for plasma and have UV block all healing next turn on victims - more strategy.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jun 26, 2011 21:57

Jun 27, 2011 14:15

Subject: Re:Unfair players

wasp

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Joined: Jun 27, 2011,
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Dear Administrator,
I would like to inform you about two unufair players - Dougie and jamac8, I would be very appritiated if you will check out those battle logs to validate this information.

Thank you for your consideration

wasp

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Apr 01, 2012 21:05

Jun 27, 2011 14:49

Subject: Re:Unfair players

shaithis

Messages: 13,
Joined: Jun 26, 2011,
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wasp wrote: Dear Administrator,
I would like to inform you about two unufair players - Dougie and jamac8, I would be very appritiated if you will check out those battle logs to validate this information. for detailed information, please contact me danilov_ilja@mail.ru.

Thank you for your consideration

wasp

Jun 27, 2011 15:00

Subject: Unfair players

blight111

Messages: 21,
Joined: May 16, 2011,
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abc

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jun 28, 2011 01:03

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