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blight111

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blight111

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  talone wrote: We know, that some random games is unfair(for example dead monk sap vs tit, or scramble sap vs khral and many others. Now it's time yo know players who likes play unfair game.

If you get unfair game, write in chat "unfair! " and offer to draw peace. If your opponent don't want to draw, write his name here. We should know this shameful heroes



JB-- , forefall, ignotus, nfong
lion1

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lion1

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  blight111 wrote:
  talone wrote: We know, that some random games is unfair(for example dead monk sap vs tit, or scramble sap vs khral and many others. Now it's time yo know players who likes play unfair game.

If you get unfair game, write in chat "unfair! " and offer to draw peace. If your opponent don't want to draw, write his name here. We should know this shameful heroes



JB-- , forefall, ignotus, nfong


If this is true then it is shameful. Why would you insist on playing unfair random games?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 28, 2011 07:55

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nfong

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nfong

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I've always accepted peace in an unfair game when someone offered it to me.

Also, I've never played blight before, so I'm curious to know why he's accusing me.
*shrugs*

When life gives you lemons...

"TAKE YOUR DAMN LEMONS BACK, LIFE. I DON'T WANT YOUR STINKIN' LEMONS."
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talone

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talone

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Forefall yes.

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ignotus

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ignotus

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  lion1 wrote:
If this is true then it is shameful. Why would you insist on playing unfair random games?


It's Authors call to tell which map is unfair. They did it (e.g. I can't play Termopile no more). Every map available for rated games is fair or it would be already blocked by Authors.

I know that some map/race combinations are impossible to win... so sometimes I'll lose and sometimes I'll win. That's the part of game prepared for us by Authors.
blight111

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blight111

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  nfong wrote: I've always accepted peace in an unfair game when someone offered it to me.

Also, I've never played blight before, so I'm curious to know why he's accusing me.
*shrugs*


I laughed when I read this. You admit that we never played each other, yet you had no problem accusing me of: "asking for peace in every other game" in your post under "players with no honor". I included your name in the list because of your posts there indicated that is what you do.
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talone

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talone

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To date, only two players from TOP50 play unfair games:

forefall and dontbjealous


Shame on them!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 05, 2011 09:19


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waxoid

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waxoid

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Can you list the map/matchups that the top 50 consider unfair, so that there is consistency in asking for or accepting draws? Is there really complete agreement on the list?

I think most people assume that the level of 'unfairness' gets increasingly hazy, such that it becomes too hard to decide what's 'too unfair' vs. just a little unfair and normal. Maybe the interesting list is – what matchups are considered perfectly fair? I'd be a little surprised there is such a list, given that the rock-scissors-paper dynamic and even in same race games someone is red.

Absent such a list, I don't think any effort at shaming people when they don't accept draws is likely to work.
Nuell

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Nuell

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forefall
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nfong

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nfong

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  waxoid wrote: Can you list the map/matchups that the top 50 consider unfair, so that there is consistency in asking for or accepting draws? Is there really complete agreement on the list?

I think most people assume that the level of 'unfairness' gets increasingly hazy, such that it becomes too hard to decide what's 'too unfair' vs. just a little unfair and normal. Maybe the interesting list is – what matchups are considered perfectly fair? I'd be a little surprised there is such a list, given that the rock-scissors-paper dynamic and even in same race games someone is red.

Absent such a list, I don't think any effort at shaming people when they don't accept draws is likely to work.


+1
TBH, the only matchups I find to be 100% fair are mirror matches. All the other matchups, regardless of the map, will be unbalanced in some way or another.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 09, 2011 12:42


When life gives you lemons...

"TAKE YOUR DAMN LEMONS BACK, LIFE. I DON'T WANT YOUR STINKIN' LEMONS."
Sphink

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Sphink

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The terrain layout will most likely favor a certain race in each map. If the terrain is most suited for khraleans then it wouldn't make sense to play as Titan or sapian, as it would be unbalanced. Likewise if the map terrain favors sapians, you wouldn't want to play as khraleans or titans...

Just because the terrain of specific maps favor a certain races mobility, or ability to turtle. Does not make the map unbalanced, it means you are playing as the wrong race. With the current strengths and weaknesses of mobility vs defense certain maps will favor certain races...

So NO map will ever be completely balanced across all races. If you think a certain race can beat another on a certain map, try it. If not pick the same race as your opponent and it will be balanced for the most part.

Either that or get rid of most of the differences in each races units, and make them almost exactly the same... Then there will be more balance.

Good luck, Have fun!

My biased opinions are open-minded.
-Sphink
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talone

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talone

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New UNFAIR player - Draka.

On the map Rocky hi was sap against me titan. He agree that, combination unfair, but didnt draw. Shame.

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NotThatGood

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NotThatGood

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Hey there,

I'm top 500 now, but still feel kinda new to this game. Anyway...is this here just a minority of some (I think you guys are high rated?) players, who care too much about stats, or is it really that every so called "pro" doesnt want to play a game where he might be at disadvantage? (I think #1 wrote somwhere that he plays every game, that gives me some hope lol)

Anyway, I played battle for middleearth 2 rise of the witchking (wtf, long anme^^) online it in the first version the balance was a shame (f.e. units for 250 gold able to beat their counter worth of 500 gold) and I played clanwars, where the top players even got prizes. Nearly every game was played as random mirror and still noone ever asked for a draw. If you were on advantage just play concentrated and get the win and on disadvantage you try to take the challenge or try to discover a new strategy. And we still had guys with >90% wins. so far the balance here seems far better to me than bfme2rotwk v2.0...so I really dont understand what u guys are doing here?

If you only want fair games go and play mirror matches (oh no, even those are unfair, cause there's no possibility to let both players start the game) on maps of your choice...I dont mind if you make your draws, but plz dont expect every player to do so, haha I was about to say there are still some players with honor, but thats what you guys call yourself already, so that wouldnt mean anything xD.

Anyway, a good player should try to get the best out of every situation and a good player should take every challenge and if there really is a map thats unwinable let the authors ban it (after testing every strategy ofc).

I wasnt asked for draw yet, but still...here's my name for your list, lol
<----
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waxoid

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waxoid

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Yeah as you see above, a running debate. The devs have already limited the games available in ranked and in random to remove some of the worst, but bad matchups remain. There is no clear line between "utterly unplayable", "really bad", "pretty darn bad" and "ultimately imbalanced but plays competitively" etc., therefore I view this thread as trying to set up an artificial ranking competition: the players who are most persuasive in browbeating opponents into giving them draws in anything even a little imbalanced will raise in the rankings, and players less hardcore about complaining bitterly will not fare as well. I don't think that's the right thing to optimize for. So, I'm in the other camp, and don't ask for draws (I have asked, though long ago, when the system gave me more games than I had time to play, at which point the only people who give you draws are those who think they have a bad matchup . And yeah, as you point out, you can still have an extremely high winning % even playing out the bad ones.

I think if top players could agree on a list of the *very worst* (should be a small number - basically where you can't really have a game) and have people here agree those are the ones we try to draw on (and everyone can point to that thread), I could get behind that. Maybe that's worth trying to list. But obviously that really should be managed by the devs in the game-supported list of ranked matchups. I recently walked a dev through the blue sap/red khral fail on Scramble and he agreed it was not playable, but that's still in I presume. We'll see what happens with the HD update.
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Cpt Hawaiian

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Cpt Hawaiian

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I agree there needs to be a list of questionable matchups so that everyone can be aware of them or balance changes can be made. It sucks to get random matchups where you get the short end of the stick. waxoid, we should test some of those matchups and see if we can't discover new things.

quick question: are random matchups with random races worth more points than those where you select a race?


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