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The Random Damage Factor
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Do you think that Uniwar would be better without an Random Number Generator?
Yes 30% [ 9 ]
No 70% [ 21 ]
Total Votes : 30
aragorn1398

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aragorn1398

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Currently in the game there is a random factor in the damage calculator which determines the number of hits.
This is based on the units hit points and a RNG (random number generator/random number god).

  simsverd wrote: First, the variables:

A = Attack strength of the attacking unit
Ta = Terrain modifier for the attacking unit
D = Defense strength of the defending unit
Td = Terrain modifer for the defending unit
B = Gang up bonus
H = The attacking unit's health points.

Next, the formula:
p = 0.05 * (((A + Ta) - (D + Td)) + B) + 0.5
if p < 0 then p = 0
if p > 1 then p = 1

This is how to figure out the damage:
1. Pick one unit to be the attacker and the other to be the defender.
2. Use the formula above to obtain p.
3. Take H and multiply by 6. This is the number of random numbers (r) generated between 0 and 1. For every r < p a hit is counted.
4. The total number of hits divided by 6 is the number of damage the defending unit will receive.
5. Switch roles between the units (attacker becomes the defender and vice versa).
6. Use the same formula above.
7. Once both units have attacked the damage points are calculated into their health points.

I will use a quick example:
Underling vs Marauder both on Plains
If you use the formula you see that the Underling has a 30% probability of dealing damage for each of its health points whereas the Marauder has a 75% probability of dealing damage for each of its health points.

If the Underling were on a Mountain though, the numbers change to 40% for the Underling and 55% for the Marauder.

That's it!


I believe that the game would be much more strategic if there was an automatically calculable amount of damage for each move. This would make the game better as you can know what the exact outcome of a certain move is, and not have to hope that luck is on your side.

In chess, I wouldn't want to have to rely on a RNG to determine whether I get checkmate or not.

I just want there to be consistency and to have it be certain whether a move will work or not.

Let me know what you think.
curmudgeon

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curmudgeon

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No, I love it as much as I hate it. Which is exactly the point. It helps you as much as it hurts you so getting rid of it can't make things better because the net gain is already 0.
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lantry

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lantry

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I agree with curmudgeon, the luck adds a little flavor. If I wanted to play chess, I would play chess.
scaine

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scaine

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Uniwar, is great, but Advance Wars is the daddy. Troop transport, special powers, submarines, multiple air units, and a capture system based on unit strength. The daddy. Did it use random damage? No, it did not.
defacto

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defacto

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  scaine wrote: Uniwar, is great, but Advance Wars is the daddy. Troop transport, special powers, submarines, multiple air units, and a capture system based on unit strength. The daddy. Did it use random damage? No, it did not.

While it didn't use the same kind of randomness I believe there was a small amount when rounding. When I find my copy of days of ruin ill test it out.
stormtrooper

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stormtrooper

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I believe that people, especially higher up in ranks, are able to manipulate the random factor. For example, I am playing as Titans vs his Sapiens. The first shot fired in the game, by him, was his Sapien Long Range Battery, with no bonus to attack strength against my Titan Plasma Tank, which was on normal ground. There was no minus to my plasma tank's defense at all. There was no veterancy either, this was the first shot fired in the game. he did four damage to my plasma tank (4).

I have another game where I have four long range batteries against an enemy Titan. I fired three of the Batteries at his tank (same day) The damage was as follows: First shot, 2 damage. Second shot (this has a damage bonus, right?) 2 damage again. Third shot, 2 damage.

After this, I went back to the game where I am Titans, and saw that my enemy fired his battery again, but only hit me for three damage. THREE! Seriously, what are the odds on this? Even with damage bonus from multiple attacks I didn't hit for three damage. So, his (lucky random) shots are making his one battery nearly as good as 2 of mine in my other game. Making units maximize their damage is the key to winning, and if you can control the damage randomness somehow, then you would always win.

But how?

Well, I have found that when I am at work, in some places in the building I lose signal. I have stumbled across this annoyance while playing my uniwar turn a few times, and guess what? It said the game was (out of sync) and I had to reload. After the reload, I saw that my turn was undone and I basically got a do-over. This was annoying to me because it was not planned, and I do not plan on trying to do this on purpose. I work for a living and have far more important things to worry about than trying to cheat in some game. But, I can easily see how somebody who wanted to control their connection in order to ensure they could keep re-taking turns until they got the maximum (random) damage than I can see it being done.

Please kill the randomness, it can be manipulated.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Mar 19, 2012 16:45

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waxoid

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waxoid

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2 is pretty common for battery vs. plasma. With +1 gangup, 3 is more common.

4 without gangup is about 6% chance, so definitely good luck on that first shot, but not outrageous. You doing 2 with gangup is about a 17% chance each time, so twice in a row is a bummer but probably not a clear sign of hacking.

With do-overs, the story is that the random seed from the server is the same so you should get the same rolls if you attempt the same attacks. Maybe someone has actually tested this, I haven't.
Evil Jet

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Evil Jet

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I can tell you for certain that it is not completely consistent for damage done in a turn.

I once was disconnected while playing my turn, and when I came back I failed to kill a unit I previously had with the exact same moves.

The random factor is fine, but it would make the game more consistent if it wasn't there.
FuzzyEukaryote

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FuzzyEukaryote

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  defacto wrote:
  scaine wrote: Uniwar, is great, but Advance Wars is the daddy. Troop transport, special powers, submarines, multiple air units, and a capture system based on unit strength. The daddy. Did it use random damage? No, it did not.

While it didn't use the same kind of randomness I believe there was a small amount when rounding. When I find my copy of days of ruin ill test it out.


defacto is right, there was a random factor and rounding. UniWar always rounds down and uses 6 rolls per health point. I'm not sure how advance wars random factor works, but it probably has ~10 and probably rounds normally instead of always down like UniWar. This makes it much more reliable, but not 100%. It even has a CO with a trait that increases the random factor, Sonja.

I agree, AdvanceWars was awesome, but I don't think it was as tactical as UniWar. It had deeper strategy with it's troop transports and helicopter carrying cruisers, many weapon types and armor types, etc. It was cool. But it's multiplayer wasn't there.
The Impaler

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The Impaler

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At top levels sometimes one good roll can be game, because single units on certain terrain can be essential to victory. i lost a winning position to DiPersio because his marine vs my marine, both on trees did 6 damage and i did 3 back (he did the math, 3.5% chance). Sounds a little lame to whine about it but thats not why I am sharing.

I voted no, it would not be better, BUT I feel there is a very important fix that can happen: remove options below 5 or 10% chance. There would still be variation, but what everyone hates is getting f#$&ed by that 1-5% chance hit, because often THOSE are the only things people complain about. Its the only thing that ever really annoyed me.

As a side note, I dont think the rolls work exactly as people think. I had a game against Soli where i tried to do x damage against a marine with my swarmer, but attacking in 7 different orders (attacking with 0,1,2,3... units before the swarmer attacks) i still did not get x damage, even though there was a 28% chance. as far as i understand, that is a .013% chance, which I somehow doubt... I confirmed that it was a 28% chance with multiple people, but got vastly varied explainations as to how the rolls work to explain it.

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keymaster2

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keymaster2

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i don't really think it makes a difference.sometimes it turning out low damage for the opponent works
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Angkor

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Angkor

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Nice tinfoil theories.
Well the races can't be balanced without randomized damage.
Plus it's boring.
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