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Tank Air power
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zxcvsaw

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zxcvsaw

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I've been recently playing as sapiens and one of the things that has always irked me was how come a pinzer who has only claws it able to attack an air unit while the tank who does have a cannon cant. Other than that fact, do you think that tanks should get some kind of air attack?
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droidfreak36

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droidfreak36

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I think that both Khraleans and Sapiens need better ground anti-air units, because as it is K-K, K-S, and S-S games often degenerate into lots of air combat with little to no ground units. Probably the best thing to do would be to give most units a basic (2-4) anti-air attack that can deal minimal (1-3) damage to all air units. That way air units won't be able to rampage unopposed through ground forces but can still be useful units.

DroidFreak, the roboticist who plays as Khrals.

(Or Titans now that I realize how legit they are)
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cogger

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cogger

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100% agree. The pinzer on defense usually wont do any damage to a heli though. Saving up for helis for more than a few turns will usually get you overpowered by the khrals numbers. Even if you do get a heli out, it wont do very well against qhat the opponent was building up.
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Toss

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Toss

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Saps have a great aa unit - marine! You cant imagine yourself how a bunch of marines can withstand. I remember that in one of my last games I was in a 'check-mate' situation.. enemy Khral were everywhere around my two bases with swarmers and garudas. In my last breath I started to pump pure marines and I managed to push him back, in this push I built some helis and with those 20 marines they were real powerful.

But I agree that sap tank and battery should be upgraded, cuz they suck.. solo tank cant beat pinzer and a plasma, so sad.
peacemonger

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peacemonger

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  Toss wrote:But I agree that sap tank and battery should be upgraded, cuz they suck.. solo tank cant beat pinzer and a plasma, so sad.


It's also cheaper than both the pinzer and plasma.
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Toss

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Toss

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@up: Yeah, right.. so what that tank is a bit chrapek? Only 100 cheaper from plasma and 50 from pinzer, you really think that those stupid 100 credits are a good comparise in lack of firepower? Let the tank be 600, but let it be a TANK, not a buggy with a cannon.
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droidfreak36

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droidfreak36

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Toss, you really need to get a bit of perspective, because it seems you favor increasing Sap power without considering Khrals or Titans. In the area of anti-air, Titans already have it made with Eclipses and Plasmas, but Saps and especially Khrals are lacking in that area. It's all right for you Sap players who have Marines to fall back on, but us Khral players have nothing to use vs Helis except Garudas, which get killed by Marines. I favor giving both Tanks (after all, they look like they have AA guns!) and Pinzers anti-air capabilities, which should make Saps vs. Khrals (not to mention Saps vs. Saps and Khrals vs. Khrals) much more interesting.

DroidFreak, the roboticist who plays as Khrals.

(Or Titans now that I realize how legit they are)
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lantry

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lantry

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Don't compare the tank to the plasma and pinzer, compare the heli to the pinzer and plasma. I see the tank as being in the same tier as the eclipse.
I group the units in tiers based more on cost and comparable power/useage, and I counter pinzers with helis and eclipses with tanks.
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StarryBlink

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StarryBlink

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I think tank and pinzer are OK.
Kharl vs Sap is already an exciting air combat.
In most map which marines can wall copters, Sap dominate.
But in some area which marines can't wall, garudas hunt copters.
On average, Sap get only a slightly advantage.

But I'm glad if you add more air power to tank and pinzer.
Because today when I play as kharl or sap in FFA,
I have to turn my strategy 180 degree when I build garudas and swarmers to fight sap opponent.
Then another titan player attack me from another side with eclipses, I'm severely disadvantage.
That why I prefer to pick titan in FFA, plasma tanks are strong against all units.

And although I speak as sap lover, batteries are really pathetic.
Their range should be 2-4 like hydronaught.
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droidfreak36

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droidfreak36

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@Iantry: The Heli is an air unit, Plasmas and Pinzers aren't. Using Helis against tank-type units doesn't make it a tank! The point is that Tanks are virtually useless vs Khral air and Pinzers can get beat up by hiding Helis. Add some anti-air to both, and now Sapiens can use Tanks vs Khral air and Khrals can use Pinzers vs Marines + Helis.
I don't expect the Pinzer anti-air to be huge, but enough to do 2 or 3 damage, making Helis think twice about ganging up on them. If Pinzers can break Heli+Marine spam, Saps might actually have to build some other units such as artillery and tanks (Gasp! How horrible! [sarcasm]). Increasing the Battery's range to 2-4 would also help to make it more viable as an anti-air unit, a deploying artillery unit (cannot move and attack in the same turn) shouldn't be tied to a range band only 2 hexes thick.

DroidFreak, the roboticist who plays as Khrals.

(Or Titans now that I realize how legit they are)
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lantry

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lantry

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I agree with you about giving pinzers and tanks air damage, and about the battery's range.
My point about the heli was that it was more comparable in price and power to the pinzer and plasma than the tank was, and that we shouldn't assign unit strengths based on what they look like they should do.

Also, it's Lantry, I just stupidly forgot to capitalize it when I made my account

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 08, 2012 09:00

lostence

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lostence

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Notice all, Pinzer has aerial attack ability already, though only 1 point, but think its high defence and 2 points repair.
In my opinion, tank need 1 point aerial attack for balance with Khral, the Sap is poor while counterattck aerials.
regard87

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regard87

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  lostence wrote: Notice all, Pinzer has aerial attack ability already, though only 1 point, but think its high defence and 2 points repair.
In my opinion, tank need 1 point aerial attack for balance with Khral, the Sap is poor while counterattck aerials.

The tank has almost no purpose in SvK but that doesnt mean you cant counter air. SPAM more Marines.

Creator of Powerplay, Weakside, Strongside and Gap Control.
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barvar

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barvar

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  regard87 wrote:
  lostence wrote: Notice all, Pinzer has aerial attack ability already, though only 1 point, but think its high defence and 2 points repair.
In my opinion, tank need 1 point aerial attack for balance with Khral, the Sap is poor while counterattck aerials.

The tank has almost no purpose in SvK but that doesnt mean you cant counter air. SPAM more Marines.

lol
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killermax636

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killermax636

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Pinzer can throw stones towards flyers with its huge claws that tank doesn't have, which makes the difference.
Just kidding.
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