Sapien armor

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Sep 17, 2012 16:13

Subject: Sapien armor

stormtrooper

Messages: 13,
Joined: Oct 20, 2010,
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Seriously, something should be done about the useless sapien armor. These new maps give out money but start you in close proximity with your Titan enemies. I went first and used my money to but armor, so did he. I moved in between the bases to give myself a chance to gang up, and let's be honest, you can't give titans time to build walkers. I also summoned another tank.
His turn, he moves up and attacks. HIs plasma takes one damage to my four. He summons another plasma.
My turn I summon an engineer and heal my tank to full (yay)
His turn, he moves his other plasma and attacks, doing 5!!! And takes one. His other tank kills my tank!

Sapien armor stand up to plasma tanks about as well as the Titan speeders.
That, and let's be honest, the tank has two barrels while the kralean armor has pincers, so how does the kralean have an air attack and not sapien armor?

Sep 17, 2012 16:15

Subject: Re:Sapien armor

stormtrooper

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I guess my point is, it takes like 5 hits to kill plasma tanks or kralean armor but only 2 for sapien

Sep 18, 2012 10:33

Subject: Re:Sapien armor

waxoid

Messages: 442,
Joined: Aug 07, 2010,
Location: Seattle, WA
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Much discussed. I continue to think of increasing tank defense as a last resort. I'd rather see battery g. heavy -> 11.

It's true that plasma tanks are much tougher, but I think that's good and what makes the races play so differently. Sap shouldn't be slugging it out like that. With an extra 100 you saved you could have a marine in there blocking plasma gangup while you get engineer positioned to EMP. Saps have good options in short range scraps w/EMP threats. Longer range plasmas need to be hit by batteries and helis as well as tanks. Plus the occasional jeep or marine from mountain for gangup etc. Focus is on the battery change to better balance things obviously.

Sep 18, 2012 15:04

Subject: Re:Sapien armor

stormtrooper

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Joined: Oct 20, 2010,
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It's try that they are cheaper, and sapien do have EMP, but you are missing the point. All of those take time to set up and you will lose bases trying to do so. Remember these bases are close.

His turn, summon plasma tank.
Your turn, summon tank.
His turn, move up and get another tank.

Let's take your scenario of getting a marine to block, you lose because he summons walker on his turn, safe behind his tanks.
Engineer, same thing.
Marauders, well, it was a map with mountains so I couldn't get behind his tanks.

Sep 18, 2012 16:35

Subject: Re:Sapien armor

droidfreak36

Messages: 183,
Joined: Jan 23, 2012,
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Remember these bases are close.

His turn, summon plasma tank.
Your turn, summon tank.
His turn, move up and get another tank.

Let's take your scenario of getting a marine to block, you lose because he summons walker on his turn, safe behind his tanks.

That sounds like a very unbalanced map he gets 1750 credits in the first three turns yet bases are very close and there is a choke point. What map is this anyways?

Marauders, well, it was a map with mountains so I couldn't get behind his tanks.

If it has a lot of mountains and/or forest Saps should be able to gain an advantage by fighting in the terrain with Marines, Engineers and Helis, Titans have primarily heavy units so they can't deal with rough terrain well. Granted, if there is enough flat terrain for Titans to build up Plasmas and Walkers they can flush you out of the forest with Walker fire. Bottom line in this situation is map imbalance.

DroidFreak, the roboticist who plays as Khrals.

(Or Titans now that I realize how legit they are)

Sep 18, 2012 20:17

Subject: Re:Sapien armor

waxoid

Messages: 442,
Joined: Aug 07, 2010,
Location: Seattle, WA
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Yeah it sounds like an awful lot of credits if Titans is spawning plasma tanks and walkers almost at will, leaving little time for engineer developments. A lot of the new maps go nuts with credits and that tends to benefit Titans as it reduces their disadvantage of having expensive units (sometime the only factor blocking spawning is the number of bases, and not credits!) Still I'd have to see it to be convinced how broken it is, and that there is no sap counterplay available. Saps are tricksy. If you feel like posting screenshots and descriptions that might help us debug.

Sep 20, 2012 10:27

Subject: Re:Sapien armor

stormtrooper

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Joined: Oct 20, 2010,
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Ok here is another example of Sapien armor:

I am Titans on this map. I have walker, two speeders an assimilator and a tank. My enemy has the same basically, I think he is saving for another battery.

He has his armor in front on a heal pad with an engineer behind it. He assumes that healing will keep it alive (what a joke)

I hit the UV, tank is a 9 life. Walker - 4 damage (5 left), speeder - 2 damage (3 left, speeder takes 3 damage), plasma kills tank, taking 0. My other speeder kills his engineer. I expect him to surrender now.

Needless to say , if it can't take punishment it's not a "tank"

Both a Titan and khralean armor would have survived that and healed back to full on the next turn. Only sapien armor is this weak.

Sep 20, 2012 14:53

Subject: Re:Sapien armor

waxoid

Messages: 442,
Joined: Aug 07, 2010,
Location: Seattle, WA
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We don't call them Fisher-Price tanks for nothing.

Seriously though, race diversity is what makes uniwar stand above lots of other strategy games, and the contrast with the human tank is what makes the plasma awesome (though slow and hard to heal etc)

That's a fair bit of pounding you're expecting the tank to take. You chose an example right on the border really. That particular attack is likely to clear a tank, unlikely to clear a plasma, and more of an even chance vs. pinzer (UV -> 9, walker -> 6, speeder -> 5, plasma at +2 slightly favorable to do 5.) Your sapien opponent was positioned incorrectly and paid the price for disrespecting concentrated Titan firepower.

Saps have the weakest and cheapest tank, but lots of other strong attributes. You could possibly compare what it takes to clear a Garuda vs. what it takes to clear a Heli and argue Khral was given too weak an air force.

It's true though that the state of Titan/Sap imbalance overall makes it fair to consider stronger tanks as one way to improve their prospects, but it's analogous to the debate on battery – I personally much prefer fixes that preserve and enhance race diversity vs. just making the sap units more like their more expensive titan counterparts.

Oct 03, 2012 17:53

Subject: Re:Sapien armor

Xyzar

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Joined: Aug 24, 2011,
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stormtrooper wrote:I am Titans on this map. I have walker, two speeders an assimilator and a tank. My enemy has the same basically, I think he is saving for another battery.

if he has the sapien equivalent, on his turn he would have been able to deal some proper damage to your tank, and with his speeders (i forgot what they're called) possibly even take out your walker (depending on map/distribution) sicne they cane move twice in a turn.

It's not that unbalanced

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