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UPDATE - New units !
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stylepro

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stylepro

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I think that you have to make units in every game mirrored.
Either both players play with new units or both players plays without new units.
Otherwise it will be totally unbalanced.

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legia

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legia

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  stylepro wrote:I think that you have to make units in every game mirrored.
Either both players play with new units or both players plays without new units.
Otherwise it will be totally unbalanced.


Yes I agree, also many players will say that UniWar is PAY TO WIN.

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stylepro

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stylepro

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Legia, they will think so because current model of implementing new units will be really unfair.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 19, 2016 20:24


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japhib

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japhib

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There is already one big ability in Uniwar that you have to pay for to use, and that is unlimited undos. Seriously, it's impossible to get higher than like 1800 or so without it. But no one's complaining about that one being unfair or about it making uniwar "pay to win."

Plus, as long as the new units are balanced within their races, more expensive for special abilities and so forth, they will still be able to be countered by existing units. It won't be too much different from how the game is right now, because already, whenever you play against a different race, your opponent can make a bunch of units that you can't. All the new unit ideas posted in this thread have been tailored to fit some specific tactical niche, but they will all still have their own counters. For example, the new anti-air GH unit proposed for Khraleans (Salamander or whatever) will still probably be vulnerable to Pinzers and maybe even Underlings. Xavi's smart, I'm sure he'll keep in mind that lots of players won't have the new units but will be playing against them, and will give the new units appropriate weaknesses. It's not like people are going to stop playing with the old units and only use the new ones. The new units coming out are just meant to give more diversity and strategical options in games.

Also keep in mind that we will be getting free Unicoins now just from winning games, advancing further in rank, and so forth. So even if you aren't willing to shell out $5-10 for supporting the devs in exchange for the hours of fun you've probably had while playing Uniwar, you'll still be able to buy the new units after a little while of simply continuing to play.

See also:
[New ways to earn or get Unicoins]
[New Units and why IAP can/will be a bad idea!]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 19, 2016 20:45

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stylepro

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stylepro

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Undo can be done for free, so that is not the case, I was at 2200+ without undo button, so you're wrong.
What i do want is to make everyone equal in any situation. Undo button now is something that only makes your game more comfortable. I like most of the changes, but not units.

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japhib

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japhib

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stylepro wrote: Undo can be done for free, so that is not the case, I was at 2200+ without undo button, so you're wrong.


Props for getting so high without unlimited undo!

stylepro wrote: What i do want is to make everyone equal in any situation. Undo button now is something that only makes your game more comfortable.


But people aren't equal in all situations already. The fact that there are different races makes the players unequal.

You could say, "well, even if they're playing different races, they're essentially still equal because Xavi and the community have done such a good job balancing the races against each other." But if you really believe the races are equal to each other, why don't you believe that the new units will be balanced as compared to the old units? It's the same people that made the previous units balanced, so why won't they be able to make the new units balanced?
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stylepro

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stylepro

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No, game balance is far from perfect now and it will only become worse with new units. If that is not pay to win, it is clearly situation where one player have disadvantage. That's not cool at all.

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simsverd

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stay on topic guys.

This post is about the ideas of new units : name, abilities, stats, classes etc etc

Discussions on how to implement new units (IAP) belong in a diffent post

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LkASr

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LkASr

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also, on my commando suggestion, Sapiens also lack mid range weaponry, so having one would be a very good idea

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japhib

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It's true. Titans have eclipse with range 2, Khrals have swarmers with range 2, but Saps don't have anything with range 2. A commando with range 2 would be awesome.

Someone else proposed a bomber with range 2, low mobility, and high anti-ground (and maybe anti-aquatic) attack but low anti-aerial attack. However, I don't think this unit would make a great addition to the game. It seems like it would only be really useful in SvS, which is already an interesting and well-rounded matchup (depending on the map). It wouldn't be useful against Titans because they already have eclipse to shoot down any aircraft. It wouldn't be useful against Khrals because they are so air-heavy anyway and the bomber wouldn't provide any additional anti-air.

Saps are kind of stuck with marines for their best anti-air. This is nice on maps with lots of forest and mountains since they get such good bonuses on this terrain, but on maps without strategically placed forest and mountains around a central chokepoint, Saps have a bit of a problem IMO. Plus, there's always the problem that they have infestors that can steal the marines if they get close enough. The commando unit would be good against infestors if it can't get infested. But it seems that Saps need a GH that is of medium use against both GH and aerial (similar to Garuda). Batteries and Helis are of course decent against both of those unit types, but they're both so fragile and expensive...

A commando would help by being able to poke at the air units from range 2, especially more fragile ones like the swarmer. But I don't think it solves the overall problem.

TL;DR I don't think a bomber would help the balance problems that Saps have. Rather, I think they need a GH with medium durability and decent anti-air attack.

It could be a vehicle that is more heavily armed and tough than the marauder but not as turtle-like as the tank. Like this (but with a few more/bigger machine/anti-air guns):



A unit like this would help Sapiens immensely against Khrals' swarmers & garudas on maps where there isn't a good amount of forest/mountains for marines to hunker down in. It would also break up the marauder wars in SvS.




Sims, do you know how close Xavi is to deciding on what the final new units are going to be? From the concept art for Khral units posted earlier, it seems like those were pretty set ... What about Saps and Titans?
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LkASr

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LkASr

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  japhib wrote:It's true. Titans have eclipse with range 2, Khrals have swarmers with range 2, but Saps don't have anything with range 2. A commando with range 2 would be awesome.

Someone else proposed a bomber with range 2, low mobility, and high anti-ground (and maybe anti-aquatic) attack but low anti-aerial attack. However, I don't think this unit would make a great addition to the game. It seems like it would only be really useful in SvS, which is already an interesting and well-rounded matchup (depending on the map). It wouldn't be useful against Titans because they already have eclipse to shoot down any aircraft. It wouldn't be useful against Khrals because they are so air-heavy anyway and the bomber wouldn't provide any additional anti-air.

Saps are kind of stuck with marines for their best anti-air. This is nice on maps with lots of forest and mountains since they get such good bonuses on this terrain, but on maps without strategically placed forest and mountains around a central chokepoint, Saps have a bit of a problem IMO. Plus, there's always the problem that they have infestors that can steal the marines if they get close enough. The commando unit would be good against infestors if it can't get infested. But it seems that Saps need a GH that is of medium use against both GH and aerial (similar to Garuda). Batteries and Helis are of course decent against both of those unit types, but they're both so fragile and expensive...

A commando would help by being able to poke at the air units from range 2, especially more fragile ones like the swarmer. But I don't think it solves the overall problem.

It could be a vehicle that is more heavily armed and tough than the marauder but not as turtle-like as the tank. Like this (but with a few more/bigger machine/anti-air guns):



A unit like this would help Sapiens immensely against Khrals' swarmers & garudas on maps where there isn't a good amount of forest/mountains for marines to hunker down in. It would also break up the marauder wars in SvS


even on flat maps, saps will still be able to ass kick khrals with marauder-helicopter combo. With superior mobility, such combo will eventually destroy swarmer-garuda combo due to said combo don't have the mobility to counterattack.

And also, swarmer is squishy and even tho garuda is good all around, it's relatively weak against massed harrassments.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 20, 2016 22:00


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japhib

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Maybe we can have another medium fast unit for the Titans? All their units are super slow except for the speeder, and the mecha's teleport ability. While teleport is awesome for team games on large maps, I'm not so sure about it for 1v1's. On any map that requires capturing a few bases that are 3 or 4 or 5 tiles away at the very beginning of the game, it seems that Titans have a big disadvantage. And for that matter, Sapiens too, in SvK.
B62

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B62

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Apologies for the rather long essay on this subject.

One of the good things about the game is that the different races have different strengths and weakness so different tactics are required for different races. If the new units plug all the weaknesses for each race we will end up with races that only look different but play the same. I think it would be better to identify the strengths of each race and build on them. I’ve tried to list the characteristic strengths and weaknesses for each race that I think should be maintained (or even enhanced!!) by any new units.

Sapiens
+ Manoeuvrability (helicopters and marauders can make multiple moves in a turn)
+ Mobility (fast moving units)
- No short range stand-off attacks (like swarmer or eclipse)

Titans
+ Long range attack
+ Strong defence
+ Good fire power
+ Teleport
- Poor mobility and manoeuvrability (except speeder)
- No flying units
- Slow repair rate
- High cost units

Khral
+ Good mobility
+ Short range stand off attack
+ Good repair rate
+ Burying
+ Low cost units
- Poor manoeuvrability
- Inferior fire power
- Inferior defence

So here are some suggestions for units. Some have "special abilities" but these are based on existing abilities so hopefully they would not be too difficult to code.

Light Ground units…………


1) Sapien:- Jump trooper
"Infantry with jet packs! Fight on the ground but move by flying. Good attack, weak defence but have 2 moves per turn for the classic sapien hit and run tactics."
200 credits
Ground Light but moves using flying (ie all terrain cost 3 movement points except base which cost 4.) Over water attack and defence bonus is -2/-2.
Mobility:- 6
Vision:-5
Repair:- 1
Attack range:- 1
Defence strength: 4
Attack vs light: 8
vs heavy: 4
vs arial: 4
vs aquatic: 2
Two moves per turn (like a marauder)
Not infectable by infector
Can capture bases
Note:- this unit could alternatively be implemented as unit that can switch between a light unit and a ground unit)

2) Titan:- Sentinel
"Very strong but slow infantry so slow they are only really useful for defence. Good for slowing down the waves of tanks and pincers at the start of a low income game"
200 credits
Ground Light
Mobility:- 6
Vision:-3
Repair:- 1
Attack range:- 1
Defence strength: 10
Attack vs light: 6
vs heavy: 6
vs arial: 4
vs aquatic: 4
Attack before move (like a battery)
No teleport
Not re-programmable by Engineer
Can capture bases

3) Khral:- Burrower
"Underground attack specialist"
200 credits
Ground Light
Mobility:- 6 above ground 10 underground
Vision:-3
Repair:- 2
Attack range:- 1
Defence strength: 8
Attack vs light: 4
vs heavy: 3
vs arial: 0
vs aquatic: 4
Can move underground
Resurface attack bonus (+4)
Not transformable by assimilator
Can capture bases


Aquatic units…..

For Aquatic units I think the concept of submerged units is a great idea it should add extra depth!
This could work in the same way as buried units so that submerged units:-
· cannot be attacked (with some exceptions)
· cannot attack without resurfacing (with some exceptions)
· do not have and are not affected by zones of control
· can occupy a hex with another unit as long as that unit is not also submerged


Unlike buried units:-
· Submerged units can resurface and attack at the end of their move
· When submerged units resurface and attack they do not get counterattacked by the defending unit
· Only some units are able to see submerged units


4) Sapien:- Patrol boat
"The marauder of the sea with anti sub attack"
300 credits
Aquatic
Mobility:- 9
Vision:-5 (can see submerged units)
Repair:- 1
Attack range:- 1
Defence strength: 6
Attack vs light: 6
vs heavy: 4
vs arial: 4
vs aquatic: 6
Two moves per turn (like a marauder)
Special ability:- can drop depth charges which do 1 damage to all submerged units (friend or foe) within range of 1 hex or less. This ability can be used after each move instead of an attack (no cooldown).

5) Sapien:- Submarine
"Specialist antiship submersible weak if caught on the surface"
400 credits
Aquatic (submersible)
Mobility:- 9 on surface, 6 submerged
Vision:-3 (can see submerged units)
Repair:- 1
Attack range:- 2 (not 1 to 2)
Defence strength: 6
Attack vs light: 0
vs heavy: 0
vs arial: 0
vs aquatic: 12


6) Titan:- Hydrofort
"Floating anti aircraft and anti sub platform. Very strong defence but cannot move except by teleporting."
350 credits
Aquatic
Mobility:- 0 (only moves by teleportation!)
Vision:-3 (can see submerged units)
Repair:- 1
Attack range:- 3
Defence strength: 12
Attack vs light: 4
vs heavy: 2
vs arial: 8
vs aquatic: 6 (can attack submerged units)
Teleport (5 turns cooldown)

7) Titan:- Hydroski
"Small fast boat that carries long range surface to surface missiles"
450 credits
Aquatic
Mobility:- 15
Vision:-5
Repair:- 1
Attack range:- 1 [4 to 6 when launching missile]
Defence strength: 6
Attack vs light: 4 [8 when launching missile]
vs heavy: 2 [8 when launching missile]
vs arial: 2 [0 when launching missile]
vs aquatic: 4 [8 when launching missile]
Special ability: Launch missile, attack stats change to those in brackets for one turn (3 turns cooldown?)



Khral:- Shark
"Fast submersible that hunts other submersibles and can gang up on bigger aquatic units "
200 credits
Aquatic
Mobility:- 12
Vision:-3 (can see submerged units)
Repair:- 1
Attack range:- 1
Defence strength: 4
Attack vs light: 0
vs heavy: 0
vs arial: 0
vs aquatic: 4 (can attack submerged units)
Special ability: can attack submerged units while submerged (they don’t get to counter attack unless they are also sharks)

9) Khral:- Kraken
"Submersible heavyweight with strong short-range attack against other aquatic units "
400 credits
Aquatic
Mobility:- 9
Vision:-3 (can see submerged units)
Repair:- 2
Attack range:- 1
Defence strength: 10
Attack vs light: 0
vs heavy: 0
vs arial: 0
vs aquatic: 8


Gamechanger units…..

I think it might also be good if each race had a very high cost and powerful unit that could tip the balance in games that become a bit of a stale mate (eg when the titans have a huge wall but never attack). These are my suggestions for the units.

10) Khral:- Dragon
"A flying wyrm with a fast healing rate and multiple attacks!!"
1200+ credits
Arial
Mobility:- 12
Vision:-5
Repair:- 3
Attack range:- 1 to 3
Defence strength: 6
Attack vs light: 10
vs heavy: 10
vs arial: 12
vs aquatic: 10
Can attack twice after each move.


11) Sapien:- Bomber
"Fast flying wall destroyer with collateral damage!"
1400+ credits
Flying
Mobility:- 16
Vision:-6
Repair:- 1
Attack range:- 1
Defence strength: 8
Attack vs light: 10
vs heavy: 10
vs arial: 2
vs aquatic: 10
Can move before and after attack (like a helicopter)
Special ability:- When the bomber attacks all adjacent units (friend or foe) are attacked and all adjacent enemy units get to counter attack

12) Titan:- Nuke
"Teleporting bomb!!"
1600+ credits
Ground heavy
Mobility:- 6
Vision:-3
Repair:- 0
Attack range:- 1
Defence strength: 4
Attack vs light: 0
vs heavy: 0
vs arial: 0
vs aquatic: 0
Teleport: Can teleport to any visible space, even if occupied by another unit. On arrival the nuke immediately explodes causing.. a strength 15 attack to any unit on the target hex, a strength 10 attack to all units on adjacent hexs, a strength 7 attack to all units within 2 hexes and a strength 4 attack to all units within 3 hexes. All units (friend or foe) are affected unless they are submerged or buried.


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Apercent

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Apercent

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Well, here's my 2 cent on this;
The saps jetpack dude looks op. It's like a maruader that can fly, but cheaper. Did I mention it can change to g.l too? My suggestion:. Make it weaker or more expensive, or better yet, ditch the 2* attack and go for something like high mobility or move after attack. Or heck, better stats.

Titans dude... not sure

Khrals burying guy looks fine but I think it needs a buff to be more useful

So I assume most of the subaquatic can only attack each other? It would be less confusing to just make them their own class type, like aquatic.
The submarine looks fine. The hydrofort I think is my favorite one on here. I think that you meant 1-3 range though

Why do the Titans get a lone range missle though? And it's 4-6 range??? That may cause a lot of problems, as this is just begging to be spammed against every artillery. My suggestions;. Reduce its range to 2-4 or 5-6; if you decide on 5-6 make sure the missile doesn't work overland, or reduce its in Land range to 2-4 and overseas range to 5-6. Because of this, you can give it a decent anti-air missle, like 6-7 air.
My suggestion, maybe you can change it from missiles to suicide drones. The suicide drones have 20 mobility and move 3 tiles on water and 5 on land. Every turn the drones lose 10 health regardless of wether they did or didn't hit something. They also die if they hit something else.
Esstientally it's the same as a missile, bit it can't be spammed versus land units. I'm not saying you have to, I'm just saying you need to make sure that it can't spam missile strikes on saps and khrals.

The kraken needs to be stronger if it intends to be an anti-shiny unit. It's not only out ranged but also outclassed

The shark is super duper weak, it will just get destroyed by the patrol boat and will never fulfill its anti-submarine duties.

I guess the patrol boat is okay, really depends on how the other aquatic units turn out.

These ate some good ideas, just need improvement, that's all


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Duaneski

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B62:
Check this post out, regarding each race getting a "big" unit for stale mates (spoiler: I agree with you )

http://forum.uniwar.com/posts/list/2254.page#15601

i like a lot of your ideas as well. Lot of good ideas and discussion here. Can't wait to see what we end up with!!

Looking at your units:

Jump trooper:
Cool design. Problem: can capture bases from very far away. Solution: do not allow it to capture bases? i think that would be important.

Burrower: I like the high defense. Is +4 the same bonus an underling gets? I feel like this unit should maybe have -1 def and +1 GL and GH though. Also to separate it from underling, some aerial attack, even 1 or 2 would be good, and help in KvK battles to add some depth perhaps ...

Nuke: I'm not a huge fan. The design is easy and it has a clear purpose, but there's no "I pulled that off" to launching this nuke. I think what you could do, is make assimilators be able to designate a target for the nuke - maybe 3-4 hexes away, and they have to survive for it to launch.. Sorta ala SC. This negates the effectiveness of the nuke a lot, but i think it makes it more fun, and also given the difficulty probably allows for it to be even more devastating.

The bomber sounds like it's gonna make a frickin ton of one way trips, taking return fire from up to 6 units haha. Well, lemme check the defense on it hah. Cool idea though.

I like the dragon a lot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 25, 2016 03:03

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