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simsverd

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Location: Bergen, Norway
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simsverd

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I agree that chess timer (and "time-bank") can be done. The idea is growing on me since we see that there indeed are players that "play for time" in the tourneys.

Chess timer should serve 2 purposes:
1. Be a motivator for all players to take their turns faster
2. Give flexibility to those players that dont always can do their turn within the 12 hour limit we currently use in the official tourneys.

A chess timer should not be for all tourneys. It should be an option in the "tourney admin panel"
There will also be tourneys in the future that are admined by players and can have different timelimits.

It should also be tested in a separate tourney before deployed in championship tourneys.

Suggestion:
Turn time would be 24 hrs. Prefered turntime is 10 hrs. (this values can be adjusted when we get some experience)
Each player start with 24 hours in time bank (this initial bank can be adjusted when we get some experience).
Time used above 10 hours is deducted from the time bank in 1:1 ratio. Time is drawn even when timer is at 00:00 and other player can skip.
Time used less than 10 hours are added to time bank in 2:1 ratio (example: take your turn after 4 hrs and get 6 * 0,5 = 3 hours added to time bank)
If time bank go to 0 you automatically loose the game. Normal skipping apply after 24 hrs

This model gives incentive to take turns as quick as possible and at least every 10 hrs. It also gives flexibility for those players that miss their turn some times.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Aug 05, 2015 07:02


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rwieczor84

Messages: 184,
Joined: Dec 24, 2010,
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rwieczor84

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We must add some time to tournaments 12 hours is to little, many players leave uniwar because they are skipped.
Time bank sounds pretty nice
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volf

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Joined: Jun 03, 2015,
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volf

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Hmmm... I like it. Is that what people are calling a chess timer? How much would you start with in the time bank? Estimation is fine.
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volf

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volf

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  rwieczor84 wrote:We must add some time to tournaments 12 hours is to little, many players leave uniwar because they are skipped.
Time bank sounds pretty nice


Kind of agreed. When college starts up Im scared I wont make those 12 hr cuts myself...
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volf

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volf

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Ignore my qiestion I reread it! Ok, so are you saying after 10 hrs a player can be skipped? I dont see a point to that...
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legia

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legia

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  volf wrote:Ignore my qiestion I reread it! Ok, so are you saying after 10 hrs a player can be skipped? I dont see a point to that...


no.

You have 24 hours in your bank time at the start of touney and 24 hours to make a move.
If you move faster then 10 hours you will add time to bank time (as Simsverd wrote).
If you move after 10 hours your time bank will decreases.
Skip is possible after 24 hours.
If your bank time reach 0:00 you will loose.

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volf

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volf

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Got it! Thanks legia. I like that idea! Took mine a step further!
kyle kroeger

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kyle kroeger

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Great!! Ya'll already thought of it. I was going to suggest a chess timer. I'm so glad to hear you think that is doable. For what it is worth, here is how I think it should play out:

Starts with a crazy 48 hours as it has been. I agree that this is too long, but you make it only a six hour increase and you keep it as an immediate kick if they go over. I think this would allow for some big mistakes, but also be highly motivating to do your turn right away. This would allow us to make even semi-final and final games 10 days long like earlier rounds.

Assuming a round is 10 days, a player would have an average of 10 hours per turn (that is factoring in an opponent taking his turn within two hours every-time! Which is crazy fast (they would have 142 hours left over on their timer).

You may think this extreme so maybe it needs to be modified, but the key to my plan is high upfront and low increase. I think that will be the stronger motivator not to stall.

Kyle


P.S. We might want to think about putting a cap on it between 48-72 hours. Otherwise, even skilled player will need to keep track of the others hours to avoid the other player not playing for the last 4 days of the tournament and play on the last second because they have accrued days. I realize that they would have played 30+ rounds of the game so if in the incredibly rare instance that they are that even after 30 rounds, then they maybe they should be rewarded for playing so quickly previously. But I think a 48 hours cap would still allow them to do that.

P.P.S. I don't have time right now to check all my calculations so please just hear the spirit behind what I am saying: high upfront on the timer (48 hoursish), and low increase.
kyle kroeger

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kyle kroeger

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Oh! Just read Legia's thought that if the time runs out, you lose and I agree. It should be an automatic kick. No getting mad at people for pressing the button. Make it out of their control.
kyle kroeger

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kyle kroeger

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Or!!!!! If we really want to motivate people! We could just make the turn counter 200 hours and no time is added

You run out of time, automatic kick.
kyle kroeger

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kyle kroeger

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200 is too much. 150 would be better. I bet you would have half the games finish in the first two days.
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rwieczor84

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rwieczor84

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If time bank have max limit of 24h there would be no problem with high value of time bank.

turn counter of 150 is also not the best solutution:
If one player can make move very fast (he is almost all day online) and the second will move each 10-12 hours then after 7 days (168 hours) one would have for example 110 hours in time bank (150-40=110) and second would have 168-40=128, 150-128 = 22 hours left. First player with 110 hours in time bank can wait 4,5 day to make last move within last hour of tournament. Not the best yeah?
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simsverd

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simsverd

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My suggestion is a bit conservative, but i believe its better to start in "that end" rather than an extreme variant.

The tourney system should make it possible to play normal turns that dont make it to easy to speculate with when players are sleeping, thus a 10 hour target time seems a good way to start such a system

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consad

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consad

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Can be players to return half of the time spent on the one turn, but no more than 12 hours, as compensation?
luis91

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luis91

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I have an idea to increase fairness of especially team tourneys.

I am currently participating in the 4vs4 sky watch tourney and am in group 4.
My team has won 2 games already and the last game is against a team, which won 1 game and lost 1.
Its obvious that we will lose our current game ending up 2:1, as well as our opponent.
The tourney is running for a long time now and still we are only in round 12 in this particular match and our 2 other games are decided for a long time and our team is playing quite fast.
Our enemy is playing as slow as possible. They did in every on their 3 games finishing them late! In our game they are almost only turning in the last hour of their time, though the game is decided and there is not much tactic to discuss. they even talked in the chat about setting the timer to turn as late as possible.

So this round will probably end for my team, because the time for this round is almost over and their team will have less winning rounds than my team, which is actually quite unfair, because my team would last for some more turns and would have good chances to advance to the next round, when there would be no time limit ( i know that this is not an option! ).

I thinks until here thats a fairly knwon problem, but i may have a solution or at least an idea, which is making the system better!

At the current state the system favors teams, which are playing slowly! Actually there is no reason to make your turns fast! You try to get ahead in bases and/or credits and then you are playing the clock down!
Because obviously when you have played less rounds in total you will have played less rounds in your winnig game and giving you an advantage.I dont think that this is the right way!

I would favor teams who are playing fast! ( doing their turns fast ) And i would implement it as following:
if a group in a tourney is ending up in a tie ( 2 teams with 2 wins and 1 loss ) i would first check if one of the teams did not finish the 2 winnig games, because obciously the number of winning rounds is not accurate/not fair, when you didnt finish your games ( your winning rounds would be higher if there would not be a time limit ) and when one of the teams did finish more of the won games i would let them advance disregarding the number of winning rounds.
If both teams have the same number of finished won games, then i would solve the tie with the current procedure!
This system would favor players who are finishing their games in time and i think
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