| What say you to colossal units? |
| HECK YES!!! MUST HAVE NOW |
 
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13% |
[ 3 ] |
| Sign me up! |
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13% |
[ 3 ] |
| I could go either way |
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13% |
[ 3 ] |
| I don't like it |
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21% |
[ 5 ] |
| Good idea, but needs balanced extensively before I would agree |
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42% |
[ 10 ] |
| Total Votes : 24 |
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![[Avatar]](/images/avatar/0c72cb7ee1512f800abe27823a792d03.jpg)
Duaneski
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Duaneski
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LkASr wrote:if you guys think it won't work, here's another suggestion:
A shield system:
It takes the increased Hp concept, but this time, there are 2 ways to do it:
They could replace the 10 Hp with another 10 Hp, but marked in a color (depends on the race's color, but will be gray if the race's color is black) instead. If that turns 0, it will revert back to the original black color as the original Hp.
or
They can be on top of the original Hp count and be marked in a color (same thing as above). This way, If the shield turns 0, it'll still be there.
To regenerate shield, a colossal unit must have all of its health to 10 Hp. This way shield isn't counted as additional Hp.
That...... Is an awesome idea!
But, not specific to colossals.
Shields could be a GREAT premise for an alien race.
Let's say shields automatically heal 1-3 HP per turn. Shields could be of varying size, based on the unit. So an infantry might have a 4 hp shield while a tank unit could have 10.
This would work well with low overall defense values for the given race.
(Honestly, I'm considering applying this idea to the Phasers or Fobos. All credit to you for coming up with this, but I think it would be a neat mechanic. And I could totes get rid of the mothership for the phasers and it'd just be: you heal what you heal and that's it!)
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Apercent
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Apercent
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I want to use that on overheal for rooks, that sounds awesome. I think it'd be great for motherships, dausenki.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Feb 29, 2016 21:41
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amidama
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amidama
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0
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 17, 2016 21:43
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Hakumen |
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LkASr
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LkASr
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you're welcome 
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Never surrender when you still have the chance.
"I have achieved navel superiority" -myself 2017
All the good stuff  [WoT Generals Beta Tester, Uniwar Beta Tester, Vainglory Hero Suggestions List Contributor]
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Duaneski
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Duaneski
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amidama wrote:thats where a shieldo-mania started... *takes notes*
lol
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Apercent
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Apercent
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I think that as a unit, this seems a little off color for uniwar. Maybe if it wasn't just an ordinary unit that you could make, sure, but as a unit, this doesn't seem like it will be anything more than a novelty (like the old saps tank that no one ever used)
I think this should be more like a force of nature.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 01, 2016 18:34
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japhib
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japhib
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I don't think that Xavi and the others are going to go through the effort of making and balancing a unit with such different mechanics and playstyle that would be too expensive to even see any competitive play.
Plus, if the Titan Sentinel has 17 defense, even a Walker (with 10 attack vs. Ground Heavy) has only 50-(5*(17-10)) = ~15% chance for each hit point to do damage against this thing (according to the formula in this thread: http://forum.uniwar.com/posts/list/1354.page). So yeah, even a full health walker, which costs almost half of what the Sentinel costs, will only do 1-2 damage per turn against it ... And it only has 1 turn to do so at 5 range before the Sentinel gets within 4 range and the next exchange of fire completely destroys the walker. A plasma tank would also do around 2 damage per turn to this thing, but only if it manages to get within melee range of it and still somehow is full health. No, with the current math behind the damage system, and its current numbers, the sentinel is pretty unworkable.
But I do think that a stalemate-breaking unit is in order. Mayhaps a a nuke would work, that is, a super expensive aerial suicide unit with high damage to every single unit type (would outright destroy GL's, and bring even plasma tanks pretty low) BUT, would be consumed by one attack. If it did AOE damage, even better. But I think what you want from a stalemate-breaking unit is the ability to shake up the state of the game, not guarantee a winner.
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Duaneski
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Duaneski
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Yeah. I am not 100% on the math. The numbers are for baseline purposes - to say 'what the unit should do' ... Sounds like sentinel defense would need reduced for sure
What do you think of the other two proposes units?
I don't love nukes btw. I think they're kind of unimaginative generally :/... SC did them pretty well imo. Hard to deliver, limited effect. In that sorta setup I could be on board, but then I'm not sure how much they would fit this archetype. I'll check out the proposed nuke on the other thread though. I didn't read it too closely TBH.
Yeah I'm not sure if these units are worth the work. I mean you can take away some of the particulars, but personally I felt like having this unit be a end game only type unit would be ideal. Like if you're on Ambush Tourney this shouldn't be a viable unit.
Thank you for reading and for your thoughtful reply
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japhib
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japhib
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No problem! Imo the stalemate situation where both sides have built up everything to the point that nothing can happen is not the most important strategical niche that new units should try to fill right now.... That is, since it seems like there will only be a few more new units coming in the near future, I think there are other niches that would be a higher priority to fill. Idk exactly what those should be (I've made plenty of comments in the new unit thread though ...)
That said, I don't think that the colossal units are unworkable for the less-near future. I think it's a cool idea. Not so sure about the Khrals one's 5 attacks per turn  but I think it could be a cool game mechanic. I like the idea of 20 hit points and only having one per side. But what if both sides have one of these? Won't that just be another stalemate? Along the same lines, if both sides are built up to a stalemate and then both start nuking each other like crazy, that's another kind of stalemate I suppose. IMO if there were more mechanics similar to the Khral's plague (maybe even stronger -- 2 damage per turn and/or you can't heal it in the same turn?), that might be better for preventing or ending stalemates. Some sort of AOE thing that damages multiple units and could hurt a wall more than could be repaired easily -- doing significant damage to both the tanks at the front of the wall and also the engineers behind it.
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Duaneski
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Duaneski
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Japhib - some very good points.
As for the situation where both sides build a colossal, this ideally would not further a stalemate, but provide a piece which allows for the stalemate to break.
The salvation probably isn't the best example of this, but it does provide a swarmer like counter to walkers - as well as providing some forward deployment of marines potentially ... It is probably a better 'team map' colossal compared to the other two colossals.
The kraken 5 attacks is absurd in a lot of ways, buuuut I tried to design it to be able to break a Titan brick exceptionally well. Maybe 5 is too much. Maybe other stats would need moved down significantly. But yeah, having one of those pop up, allowing 3-5 underlings to pop up by itself... That is a definite stalemate breaker. Against Titans or saps.
The sentinel meanwhile gives the Titans a nigh impossible to destroy centerpiece that can allow the Titan to inch forward against saps or Khral...
Wellllllll that's the idea anyway hah.
But you're definitely right about the design space being open enough that there isn't necessarily any reason to go with colossals right now
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TheCero
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TheCero
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I see Duaneski is much favoring 'k' again
5 attacks... Shouldn't be immune to colossal uv attack from titan. Also titan uv should hit buried units. Titan seems under powered
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Duaneski
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Duaneski
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TheCero wrote:I see Duaneski is much favoring 'k' again
5 attacks... Shouldn't be immune to colossal uv attack from titan. Also titan uv should hit buried units. Titan seems under powered
TBH I just don't know how one kills a sentinel LOL
The kraken getting 5 attacks is a lot but only first unbury attack gets the +4 so it isn't gonna do well at all against plasma or even speeders. Where it could do work is taking out 3 mechas and 2 assimilators and allowing 5 bugs to pop up in those spots.
IMO it's definitely the "thinking mans" colossal.
Salvation is the team colossal
And sentinel is the "apply more fist" solution.
Fwiw salvation has been and probably always will be my favorite
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Duaneski
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Duaneski
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Cough
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The Impaler
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The Impaler
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Its a cool idea but honestly the stats are scaled to 12 being the highest value. anything above that and you get lots of insta kills and 0 damage retaliations. Essentially i think these will only ever be damaged by units with armor penetration... also GL attack of 20 is kinda crazy. max GL defense possible is reprogrammed mecha on mountian = 12 defense, still allost a 1 hit kill haha.
I like the idea in theory but you need to follow a balance curve, and these units are completely off the current curve, we need to extrapolate past our understanding.
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Duaneski
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Duaneski
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The Impaler wrote:Its a cool idea but honestly the stats are scaled to 12 being the highest value. anything above that and you get lots of insta kills and 0 damage retaliations. Essentially i think these will only ever be damaged by units with armor penetration... also GL attack of 20 is kinda crazy. max GL defense possible is reprogrammed mecha on mountian = 12 defense, still allost a 1 hit kill haha.
I like the idea in theory but you need to follow a balance curve, and these units are completely off the current curve, we need to extrapolate past our understanding.
Ahhhhh interesting.
I did not / do not understand the stat scaling to 12. That does make sense.
I think There are ways to impact the way these units would behave without making their stats too crazy, anyway.
Either - higher base HP (thinking 12-15). Or specific rules like 'can only take 1 HP of damage per hit from enemy non colossal units' or something.
Guess there are options.
In one of my later posts I acknowledge I have no idea if stats are balaknced and state: units are designed to give a picture of what their roles would be.
At any rate. Thank you for the feedback.
Bigger question though - do you think these would impact gameplay meaningfully And positively?
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