only paid undo will work soon

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Mar 25, 2016 01:29

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Duaneski

Messages: 1021,
Joined: Nov 27, 2015,
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StarryBlink wrote:I support removing an unofficial undo.
Make the game fair for all players. Whether they know this forum exist or not.
And it's a realistic way to continually recruit money for the game development.

But the abuse of undo to see behind fog of war is the real thing today.

And with your plan to further reduce visions acros all units,
that will increase an advantage for players who abuse undo for a vision.

I really don't want this beautiful game Uniwar fall into another pay-to-win game.

So my suggestion is :
* An undo button for each game slot has a cooldown time somewhere between 5 to 10 turns. *

Please consider this. Should make players only press the undo button when they find very important reasons to do.

Bottom line :
- Never let this game become an another pay-to-win game. This set Uniwar apart form thousands of game in the app store.
- Make the undo button exist for correct player's mistake only. Not for any other abused usages.

Finding the "best" move is considered fun by a lot of top players. Taking that away would really change the competitive environment. Most players I believe wouldn't be in favor of this.

If your issue is with FOW scouting, then I think Amidama's suggestion might have merit. Or some change to how FOW is updated anyway.

Mar 25, 2016 04:42

Subject: only paid undo will work soon

nindatana

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Joined: Feb 18, 2016,
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I'm new here, only 2 months or so, but I've rapidly become a committed daily player.

I think undo is a good feature, especially if only through official means (no grey area cheats like alternate accounts or cleaning local cache). I grew up playing chess where the standard house rule is you could always undo. It's an excellent way to learn. Eventually we dispensed with it, as at a certain skill level it's more fun to just keep playing.

Fog of war is a great feature. If there is a way to have both it and undo I'm all for it. It makes a better game.

However *paid* undo is a bad bad bad idea. Please don't.

I'd rather see Uniwar become a pay only game. I've bought Uniwar coins, and have used some of them for undo, but because that's almost the only thing I can buy with them! "Support developer" for example is disabled.

I'd actually pay for undo to be free.

Mar 25, 2016 04:50

Subject: only paid undo will work soon

nindatana

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nindatana wrote:I'd actually pay for undo to be free.

This probably needs explanation. Right now unlimited undo is about $10. I'll buy that right now if it applies to me AND anyone I fight. If I have undo, we both do, if I don't, neither of us do. It's about fairness and a level playing field. I want skill to be the arbiter of winning, not available finances.

Mar 27, 2016 05:23

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Michaelrn

Messages: 80,
Joined: Feb 16, 2016,
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Right now you can search for Uniwar in Google Play and there you will see the advertisement "no pay-to-win".
The new player sees that and decides to download uniwar hoping to find a fun game where he doesn't have to pay to get advantages over the opponent (or to don't be in disadvantege if he doesn't pay). He plays a bit, gets excited, then goes to the Uniwar shop and discovers that he can pay to undo turns and think: What the F@#$ is that!?

Ok, I really like that UNDO will be going to work only as a in-game feature. It will be now possible to implement a way to control the usage of the UNDO (I don't know if it will ever be done, but at least it gives me that hope and I would love a system where players could choose for a limit to the UNDO). But I don't like to play a unfair game where one side gets advantage over the other because one of them invested money in the game to gain that, and the only paid UNDO seems kind of a pay-to-win feature.

About the vision update after the turn is over, I think it is not a good idea. Why would you move a unit ahead if probably you would just end up getting it blind into enemy's vision? The enemy would be seeing your unit at the beginning of his turn and he would gladly destroy it. You would lose it and would still be blind about the enemy's grounds during your next turn.

Mar 27, 2016 14:52

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

gspy

Messages: 12,
Joined: Nov 20, 2011,
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Just my two cents
The previous weeks/months concerns were raised for the paid undo and the balance affect inside the game for players how pay VS players that will not pay.
The counter argument in the forums was "the undo is also free! Here are the steps for free undo. Why you behave like a child? Stop nagging. There is no balance issue"
Now the free undo will be removed.
So .... what next?

Mar 27, 2016 16:13

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Duaneski

Messages: 1021,
Joined: Nov 27, 2015,
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gspy wrote:Just my two cents
The previous weeks/months concerns were raised for the paid undo and the balance affect inside the game for players how pay VS players that will not pay.
The counter argument in the forums was "the undo is also free! Here are the steps for free undo. Why you behave like a child? Stop nagging. There is no balance issue"
Now the free undo will be removed.
So .... what next?

It sucks. I was one of those saying "at least there's free undo" ... But now there isn't. It sucks. And I don't like it. But at the same time I do want the game development to continue. Sooooo. What you gonna do, I guess ? :/

Mar 27, 2016 16:25

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Apercent

Messages: 744,
Joined: Sep 08, 2015,
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Amidama solution is the best solution. I know it could be hard to implement, but it certainly would help.

Mar 27, 2016 17:37

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

MasterYoda

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Joined: Jan 02, 2016,
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I know I'm not a veteran of uni war but I personally think stopping free undo will make me feel like I've paid to win, I'm ok with players using free undo because I feel they have same ability as myself. Free undo also takes time to do so that's what I was happy to pay for, if you take free undo away from players, new players will quit before giving game a real chance. I'll also feel as though I won because I can do something my opponent can't, I'll never be proud of my victories

MasterYoda

Mar 27, 2016 17:43

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

wolkenwand

Messages: 32,
Joined: May 12, 2015,
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The delayed fog of war is great idea, really hope xavi will implemented it.

Mar 27, 2016 19:44

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

amidama

Messages: 312,
Joined: Dec 28, 2015,
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jul 17, 2016 22:33

Hakumen

Mar 28, 2016 07:41

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

StarryBlink

Messages: 184,
Joined: Jan 04, 2012,
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Duaneski wrote:

Finding the "best" move is considered fun by a lot of top players. Taking that away would really change the competitive environment. Most players I believe wouldn't be in favor of this.

If your issue is with FOW scouting, then I think Amidama's suggestion might have merit. Or some change to how FOW is updated anyway.

Finding the best move can also be done without resetting the whole turn.
As I don't buy an unlimited undo, I use undo to correct my fatal mistake only. It's cost my real money.

Still I can redo my turn many times in my head using my imaginary & experience on this game.
My current rating is around 2300s. Not a top players.
But can assure you we human being are capable of devising complex battle plan using sheer brain power.

As a player who adhere to Uniwar for years, for me buying an unlimited undo is actually a cheaper choice.
But I don't want to get a habbit of using undo to create the best move. And weaken my mental ability.

I want this game help me improve my imaginary power.
Perhap someday I can think like Napoleon in the battle of Austerliz
or Hannibal in the battle of Cannae.
These great guys can devise great battle plan without using time-machine to redo their whole operation.

And if you compare perfecting your turn with unlimited undo to having a short-distance time-machine in the real war,
you know this feature is never be a minor advantage.
If you pay for it, you've more chance to win.

Thus, the best solution for me is limiting the use of undo in some way.
Also I'll buy an unlimited undo if it can prevent me from addicting to it. To save my budget in the long run.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 28, 2016 09:04

Mar 28, 2016 11:51

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Bjmm

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Unlimited undo means my opponents have no incentive not to use it. I've genuinely lost games before because I simply don't have the same intel as my opponents. This feature has diminished the fairness of the game. To be honest I am frustrated with uniwar now and already see myself playing less and less.

These days I just surrender when I make a move that turns out bad and I see my opponent had unlimited undo. The balance had gone and this needs to be fixed.

Mar 28, 2016 16:38

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Apercent

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Joined: Sep 08, 2015,
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If undo is to become a thing, then we at least need to bring the vision back to what it was. I am a fan of the new low visions, but amidama prophecy of undo ruining the game is starting to come true.

And didn't xavi say that preventing undo would need to rewrite the whole game? Is it really worth it?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 28, 2016 16:39

Mar 28, 2016 19:57

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

amidama

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 17, 2016 22:34

Hakumen

Mar 28, 2016 22:05

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Michaelrn

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Joined: Feb 16, 2016,
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amidama wrote:Why would you move a unit ahead if probably you would just end up getting it blind into enemy's vision?

probably because in a modern war information is a key to victory?
because ambush is an order of magnitude more effective than normal combat?
because no sane commander will send his troops on a full speed inside the enemy territory without enough intel?

I agree with all that. But the problem is, in order to scout, you have to send your high vision unit ahead. Of course a sane person will not send it full speed into the unknow, but just a few steps and it might end within the range of opponents scout unit (they have the same vision, so one must be seen if it wants to see the other), and you will not be aware of that because your vision is not updated. You moved to scout and yet you have no intel of the enemy's force to help you planing your moves. At opponent's next turn, he will be able to see your scout, thus he might be able to hit it, destroying your "eyes" and leaving you blind.

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