only paid undo will work soon

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Mar 31, 2016 13:18

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

amidama

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 17, 2016 22:36

Hakumen

Mar 31, 2016 13:18

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Angkor

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simsverd wrote:people have different opinion... not all the top players have the same you know

I would say that the unfairness you describe is a small one for a free feature... There have to be a balance here and the game needs to be able to sustain itself finacially or the development will stop... wich sadly many ofc the "freeriders" dont care about when they make their arguments about fairness.

Ideas on how to undo in a way that is good for the community and also finacially for the game are most welcome

One with you can't argue about is that THIS NEED A SERIOUS DEBATE, because you can easily ruin a game at the moment, and don't tell me people you don't have your own doubts about it.
I just gave you one idea, some people gave you other resolutions as good or better. And, in my opinion, current state, where you can buy one after one undo, for all reasons of the world like you mistouched on your smart phone, OR buy infinite, is a l'l bit extortion.

It's like a story, goes like this:
The royal family thinks: 'well, these peasants, they don't need this bread. Let's make it horribly expensive'. And the peasants goes 'oh no, we need this for life! Do something!', but the Nobles say 'Nah, they don't need it. WE WILL BUY IT, and we force them thereafter to have it!'.
Economy pals. Hide the taxes, locate them in different places. When you let people decide how much of it they want to buy, they will. When you say 'twelve loafs or get lost', what will happen?
I don't know. Do you?

And, out of curiosity, who are these other top players who says that undo isn't a crucial thing? Let me know, i'll find bunch of maps where even i will beat them. Me, with undo, them, without.

EDIT: Amidama i think they have some different definition of pay-to-win, i wanna hear it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 31, 2016 13:19

Mar 31, 2016 13:23

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

amidama

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Hakumen

Mar 31, 2016 13:51

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

simsverd

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i have no restriction on what i can say, trust me on that.

@amidama: Its not about "protecting positions", thats an argument with little substance and not what the discussions really are about.
If you have a real plan about how the game would make enough money, please tell me this... What would it take for a player like yourself to spend actual money on a game you already have played hundreds of hours...

@angkor: i did not say undo isnt an important feature. But i really find it fair that it is possible in a "lesser ammount" for those that want it free and unlimited as payed.

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Mar 31, 2016 14:01

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

amidama

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 17, 2016 22:36

Hakumen

Mar 31, 2016 16:00

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Angkor

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simsverd wrote:
If you have a real plan about how the game would make enough money, please tell me this... What would it take for a player like yourself to spend actual money on a game you already have played hundreds of hours...

@angkor: i did not say undo isnt an important feature. But i really find it fair that it is possible in a "lesser ammount" for those that want it free and unlimited as payed.

I don't know, but maybe one of these:
1) 10 sec. advs before undo (non for infinite users)
2) adv banners in chat rooms
3) funny features in the shop. Folks like it funny, they pay. Alternative background graphics, names, music, anything what is shiny and crazy enough.
4) various NON-CHAMPIONSHIP payment tournaments, where uniwar gains 30-40% of which is paid, the rest would be for prizes in a tournament.
5) non-profit charities from the players
6) campaign chapters, possible with some deeper plotline (uni-coins)
7) some PLAY WITH CURRENT CHAMPION stuff (uni-coins), profitable for both of course.

maybe some PLAY FOR UNICOINS for every player, where uniwar gets 10% of unicoins back, the rest is for the winner.

ANYTHING. I repeat, ANYTHING, but it mustn't intervere with fair-play of the main stream of the game. Undo DOES.

Mar 31, 2016 17:57

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Apercent

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Pretend that your a newbie for a minute. Pretend you never ever knew what uniwar was untill you found it in Google play.

It's fun, no? Sure there's only 5 games but you'll get over it. But wait, you made a mistake! Oh no, what will you do?
A) spend your 1.99 on something more useful, like more games
B) go and play something else
C) go buy a chocolate bar with 1.99 and just admit you made a mistake. Oh well.
D) all of the above
E) pay 1.99 for undo

If you choose option d, congratulations, you have won a million bucks! Boy, you really know the middle class.

Think about it, the likelihood of anyways buying a temporary undo is very little. You can buy a chocolate bar for the same price, and it'd be more useful. Or better yet, you can buy more games!

The only people I can reasonably see buying undo is the 1900-2000 crowd. You see, unlimited undo abusers tend to belong to that crowd. Another million dollar question, the 1900-200 crowd
A) consists of barely hundreds of people
B) consists of a bunch of dead accounts
C) is generally unwilling to buy undo and has already paid for the game
D) all of the above
E) wants undo to support the devs

If you choose d, then give yourself a pat on the back and a million dollars, because that's entirely correct! If we haven't gotten it through, we don't want undo to support xavi, because we don't support lay to play. Heck, I'm 1690 and I don't support it.

Last question? Well, what is it? Oh, you think that people would pay 10$ for unlimited undo?
Quick question, when has that ever worked? How many games do you see in the play store for 10$? Why do you think it worked?
A) because it (the game) was a high quality game
B) the game was a pay to play that used patience against you
C). The purchase generally felt necessary to the game.
D) all of the above
E) people like to donate

lol #donationstation
It's always d dude. And uniwar fits in none of the categories. Well, it will fit in c, but new players will not know this, and therefore will not buy based on this principal. While I'm not saying it will not give xavi (and you?) Money, it isn't going to be a significant enough amount to make the majority of the people at uniwar angry. Why not something else like new races or new units?

Mar 31, 2016 19:21

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

simsverd

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Games like uniwar is very niche type of game. Most players that try the game want instant action and dont care to wait many hours for opponents to take their turn - and leave the game quickly.
Those that like this type of game tend to stay for longer time, and like myself many years.
The point is that there is not easy to create a business model for a game of this kind that can sustain itself financially for development, servercost, artists and maintenance etc.
Undo feature is ofc an important feature and thus discussing it on principle and out of the bigger context is mostly an academic exersize where players can ask for ultimate fairness and free free free.

@Apercent: New races and units will be IAP
you bought the chocolate bar i see

(*cough *cough wrong choice! "man up" and show your support - not only demands

)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Mar 31, 2016 19:23

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Mar 31, 2016 20:32

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

earth

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simsverd wrote:
PS1: The devs/owners dont wont it to be pay-to-win. The devs position is that undo is not affecting the strenght of units and thus is not a "pay-to-win" feature. Undo feature does not make a player good.. But as long as it is a payed feature i belive that there should be ways to do it for free also (in a limited form).

SIMS it is widely acknowledged that this will.be a pay to win feature... If 'only' available by pay I can happily get the top 50/100 players to confirm this if it helps across all communities Russian factions, Chinese US, Europeans; I can also get wider Asian communities and South American and Austrailia groups if you or developers really don't believe this is critical game changer capability.

I think we all know that ulimited redos it critical for ensuring the best outcome ... so hopefully you don't need me to ask all players but I happily will engage them all if it helps to confirm this... probably better team focus on other IAPs rather than this such as paid touneys etc.

BR

EARTH

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Mar 31, 2016 20:47

Mar 31, 2016 20:57

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

Apercent

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simsverd wrote:Games like uniwar is very niche type of game. Most players that try the game want instant action and dont care to wait many hours for opponents to take their turn - and leave the game quickly.
Those that like this type of game tend to stay for longer time, and like myself many years.
The point is that there is not easy to create a business model for a game of this kind that can sustain itself financially for development, servercost, artists and maintenance etc.
Undo feature is ofc an important feature and thus discussing it on principle and out of the bigger context is mostly an academic exersize where players can ask for ultimate fairness and free free free.

@Apercent: New races and units will be IAP
you bought the chocolate bar i see

(*cough *cough wrong choice! "man up" and show your support - not only demands

)

The problem isn't you, its the customers. Their is too many people who like to abuse that kind of thing.

The niche thing is a good point, but I could also say that the more patient of us would be less likely to buy something. The abusers would be the only reason for a lot of us to buy undo ( so we can counter undo), and abusers tend to have a high score. So, in reality, only a the top players would buy undo. So, like I said before, maybe not a great business idea.

Personally, I would make something that appeals to the new players. They are so hyped about this game! This is truly an awesome game, and for some, its like discovering a new world. Thats why i suggest new races and units IAP.

Apr 01, 2016 05:11

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

volf

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Alright I did not reak this all too carefully but what do yall think about ads??? I hate ads but... If I have to watch a minute ad to undo my move Im probably not going to do that as often. Plus that will provide long term financial support (I assume). If we ONLY have to watch the ad when we undo Im not necessarily opposed to that...

Apr 01, 2016 06:20

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

simsverd

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Joined: Dec 02, 2010,
Location: Bergen, Norway
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earth wrote:
SIMS it is widely acknowledged that this will.be a pay to win feature... If 'only' available by pay I can happily get the top 50/100 players to confirm this if it helps across all communities Russian factions, Chinese US, Europeans; I can also get wider Asian communities and South American and Austrailia groups if you or developers really don't believe this is critical game changer capability.
EARTH

I didnt say what my personal opinion is on undo - pay-to-win or not - i gave you the devs current position, wich is that its not pay to win as long as it does not affect the battle directly (strenght of units).
Personally i believe that undo is an important feature and indeed affect outcome.

But as you can see from my posts, im more into the discussion on how the game can be "sustainable" and also continue to develop. I have personally no hard feelings about undo as long as the system as a whole generates enough to continue

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 01, 2016 06:21

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Apr 01, 2016 06:30

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

simsverd

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Joined: Dec 02, 2010,
Location: Bergen, Norway
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Angkor wrote:
I don't know, but maybe one of these:
1) 10 sec. advs before undo (non for infinite users)
2) adv banners in chat rooms
3) funny features in the shop. Folks like it funny, they pay. Alternative background graphics, names, music, anything what is shiny and crazy enough.
4) various NON-CHAMPIONSHIP payment tournaments, where uniwar gains 30-40% of which is paid, the rest would be for prizes in a tournament.
5) non-profit charities from the players
6) campaign chapters, possible with some deeper plotline (uni-coins)
7) some PLAY WITH CURRENT CHAMPION stuff (uni-coins), profitable for both of course.

maybe some PLAY FOR UNICOINS for every player, where uniwar gets 10% of unicoins back, the rest is for the winner.

Many good ideas here, thank you

1. i like this, but think Xavi will not use ads on principle
2. dont like this.. small enough space as it is
3. there will be something on flags and colors, but yes there is potential in shiny things

4. will probably come
5. to be in the shop very soon
6. possibly
7. Interesting, but im not sure how practical (tecnical implementation?)
8. Interesting

@Volf : Angkor beat you to it (suggestion 1)

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Apr 01, 2016 06:38

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

nindatana

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Great discussion here, I'm glad to hear reasoned debate (mostly) and not just rants from each side.

It's been mentioned a couple of times that its mainly the play-free crowd clamoring for free undo. Not me. I've paid real money into this game and intend to spend more. I think paid undo sucks and is against the spirit that attracted me here.

Having a delay each time free-undo is used is interesting and bears exploring. Personally i'd go seconds to minutes though, not hours.

A set number of free undo per day is also interesting, and to my mind more attractive than per use delay. Of course they could both be used at same time.

However neither suggestion address the fundamental imbalance, that haves and have-nots unlevels the playing field. They would make the imbalance more palatable, but not fix it.

Ads: god no!! Advertising sucks life out and spins a sleazy car salesman vibe. No ads at all was one of the things that brought and kept me here, spending money.

Apr 01, 2016 06:48

Subject: Re:only paid undo will work soon

nindatana

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Ads: god no!! Advertising sucks life out and spins a sleazy car salesman vibe. No ads at all was one of the things that brought and kept me here, spending money.

Bomb in the Garden

This presentation by Matthew Butterick is what galvanized me to look at myself, the programs I use, and actively seek ways to spend money on them and their developers. It's the best "ad" I've ever seen.

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